Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

myth or reality?

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After 5 months I finally got the 1.7's that I ordered back in April. Out of the box, they are a major step up from the mg12's and the mmg's that i traded in for the pair. My wife who has the ears of a petrified rock swears she can't tell the difference. Perhaps she can't, (I think she's deaf). Anyway, she swears, after having never, ever purchased a set of speakers that there is no such thing as a "break in period". I know better after 20 plus years of audiophiling. But is there anyone out there who has an objective explaination that even a wife could understand about why she should NOT turn the stereo off when she leaves the house?
Learn. Do. Earn!!!

Follow Ups:

"Ears of a petrified rock". Hope she isn't reading this stuff while you are out!!! nt - Dman 18:39:23 09/19/10 (1)
nt
-Don't tell the wife, but I'm thinking again!
- RE: righto (no text) - Hi-fi Nut 05:34:28 09/20/10 (0)
  .
RE: myth or reality? - neolith 09:06:03 09/19/10 (6)
Just because your wife doesn't listen to you, doesn't mean she's deaf:).
There definitely is a break-in with Maggies. I don't know if it's alignment of the muon's and quarks in the wire or relaxation of mylar but with time the high's become less strident and the bass fills in. Whether you need this to happen right away or over a month or so, is your choice. Personally I would cater to the little woman and turn the amps off when you are not around. In the long run they will end up sounding the same and your wife will be a lot happier. Remember she is already giving up a lot by allowing you to have what to most women is an aesthetic nightmare.
As to leaving amps on unattended, it depends on the amp. With all deference to PG and "old time" repairmen, most amps particularly solid state due just fine left on. Hell, I not only leave my amps (Class D) on all the time (unless I am on vacation) but also the tube pre-amp (Music Reference RM-5) which is getting close to being 30 years old (original purchaser). OTOH,older tube amps probably shouldn't be left on.
�

I plan to procrastinate my demise for as long as possible. In the meantime, I practice by putting off all the little stuff.
- RE: myth or reality? - Peter Gunn 05:19:43 09/20/10 (5)
  OK, that is probably true as the "repairmen" in question were most likely referencing tube gear and Dumont televisions etc...... but I do own mostly tube gear...
  
  I do still feel cycling helps fatigue the metal faster however.
  
  I am confused at the advantage of leaving a class D amp on all the time however. They don't have huge caps like their cousins do, so there is no need to keep the caps bloated with power. It seems like a waste of electricity.
  
  It's all about the music...
  - Class D on all the time - neolith 20:05:50 09/20/10 (0)
    Just a creature of habit and laziness. I have always left my SS amps on so I continue to do so. Also the pre has a dc output which triggers the amps so if I leave the pre on then the amps are also on. As far as wasting electricity, the power draw of the amps in idle is about 15W each and the efficiency of the amps is about 85%. Relative to a Class A that is on intermittently, I say I am still in the "green" camp.
    �
    
    I plan to procrastinate my demise for as long as possible. In the meantime, I practice by putting off all the little stuff.
  - RE: myth or reality? - DrChaos 10:24:59 09/20/10 (3)
    Transistors operating characteristics change with temperature.
    
    Presumably the device was optimized and measured at steady-state on, because if you're in a lab you have to keep it on.
    
    The manual on my PS Audio C-100 says to keep it on.
    
    Generally with it and my previous transistor amplifier I noticed a break-in coming from a cold period for about 15 minutes.
    - RE: myth or reality? - Peter Gunn 11:24:01 09/20/10 (1)
      "I noticed a break-in coming from a cold period for about 15 minutes"
      
      No doubt about that, but I actually like that. When you go to a live show the first song is rarely the best, but the sound improves as it goes on, they warm up, you warm up to them etc... so I don't mind the stereo duplicating that.
      
      Besides, if you start at the top there's no place to go :^ )
      
      It's all about the music...
      - RE: myth or reality? - DrChaos 12:27:22 09/20/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: myth or reality? posted by Peter Gunn on September 20, 2010 at 11:24:01
        
        Wind & brass instruments are always flat when cold too.
        
        (speed of sound changes enough with temperature to notice).
    - on and off (when off is still on and on is essentially off) - wazoo 11:00:33 09/20/10 (0)
      Besides, when there is no signal being fed through a class D amp, it is pretty much as 'off' as my Pass amp is when I turn it 'off' via the front panel switch - the Pass isn't really off unless the breaker in back is switched off. I have a Bel Canto class D amp in another system, and its only switch is on the back - the recommendation is to just leave it on (which I do). I usually let the Pass warm up for a half hour before listening - warm up and break in are two different phenomenons.
      
      "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
RE: myth or reality? - josh358 08:03:05 09/19/10 (0)
As someone pointed out, the capacitors need to reform after sitting on the shelf. She'll probably think you're talking about juvenile hall, but what the hey. The loudspeakers are easier to explain, since you can point out that, like cats and people, speakers need to stretch.
RE: myth or reality? - Peter Gunn 07:51:49 09/19/10 (1)
Everyone else has really said it. It's not only dangerous leaving it on un-attended (amps use more juice than any household appliance save those meant to generate heat, and they can fail catastrophically) but every old time repairman I ever talked to has agreed - heat kills electronics, and when you have it on all day all you have is heat.

IMHO as well a good part of the break in cycle (it's metal we are trying to "fatigue" after all) is from heating and cooling and repeating, and if it never gets turned off, it can't do this.

On the other front, your wife doesn't have petrified rock ears (she can probably hear more frequencies than you can and at even quieter levels as well) rather she "hears like a girl". This anomoly takes place in the brain, not the ears.

I've discussed this with others in the past here, and it's not something that belongs entirely to women. Many men, some even audiophiles (and some even here) "hear like a girl". However it's fair to say most women hear this way, but a percentage do hear like men, and while most men don't hear that way, some clearly do.

Essentially these people hear the sound but they don't disseminate it. In other words your wife just hears the song, and that song is the same in the car, on the bathroom AM/FM radio or on a 20 grand stereo. She hears the song, and is confused as to why you think it's different. She's not listening to the resolution, she's listening to the song.

So if you ask her if she thinks there is a dip in the midband she'll look at you like you're insane. If however you ask her about the lyrics, or if she liked the guys voice, she'll most certainly have an answer for you.

What's also curious is because they focus on the song, any alteration to it is immediately noticed by them. One word deleted, sung differently, no matter how trivial, they tend to pick it up instantly. So if a violin comes in where it shouldn't they'll know it right away, but if that violin has more extension than before... they won't notice that. If forced on it and given a chance to hear both ways they will "hear" it (yeah... it sounds more... violinny...") but they'll still be confused why you care about that.

It's all about the music...
- RE: myth or reality? excellent distinction drawn... - Hi-fi Nut 05:38:06 09/20/10 (0)
  between males and females.
  (if some people weren't so prejudiced by your posts, they could learn a thing or two...)
  
  H.F.N.
RE: myth or reality? - karenmount 05:19:41 09/19/10 (0)
why not just run them when your home in lieu of while your out of the house,,

since I am retired I did have the luxury of playing them 10 hours a day for the first week,, as mentioned though my ears broke in with them as I liked them when I first powered them up and liked them even more after the first week and even more after bypassing the fuse,,

as for the wife, this could & would be a good time to agree with her,, we need to do that every now and then along with some nice flowers,, might be surprised at the mileage ya can get out of a nice bouquet of flowers,,

Derry
common sense is not common
RE: myth or reality? - pictureguy 23:33:50 09/18/10 (0)
While it IS apparently true that the ear needs some break-in, I also believe that capacitors need some time to 'form'.

Not hundreds of hours, mind you, but yes, some time.

My 1.6s did some weird stuff for the first 20 or so hours, including some real image jumping, and comb effects. I was absolutely stone cold sober, too. Not even too much coffee.

Than, by the time 100 or so hours had passed, we were used to one another:: end::
Too much is never enough
What's being broken in... - slapshot 21:37:02 09/18/10 (3)
...I'll leave to the EE people the details of equipment break in, but one aspect of the break in period is the that the auditory system (ear to brain) also needs to "break in", as it were; in other words, the brain takes time to adjust to the new sound as well...I have no data, but I wonder of part of the break in period is the brain simply getting used to the new input. That being said, I agree with esande: your wife is right, and you are wrong...:)
- I agree and have something to add (big surprise, eh?). - wazoo 09:54:20 09/19/10 (2)
  Whenever a change is made, we tend to listen differently. The wild changes that some people document during break-in probably have more to do with their own perceptual systems than anything 'breaking in' in their stereo systems. There are some things which actually do break-in, but that doesn't alter the statement about perception.
  'Critical listening' is a prescription for finding imaginary sonic changes, and I've been just as guilty as the next guy in making this error. The more I learn about the functioning of the human perceptual system, the more cautious I am about making some of these judgments. Our brains are key (and active) components of our sound systems, but most people completely ignore their influence.
  ---
  Peace and harmony in marriage = the wife is right. That sounds a bit condescending, but it's not meant that way. It's just a good shortcut to admit that I'm wrong, apologize, and move on. The fact of the matter is that it's true more often than not anyway.
  
  "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
  
  Edits: 09/19/10 09/19/10
  - RE: I agree and have something to add (big surprise, eh?). - josh358 15:04:43 09/19/10 (1)
    Heh, yes.
    
    I do know though that equipment needs a brief burn in to reform the capacitors, depending on how long the gear has been sitting on the shelf that will produce a measurable difference in performance that could potentially be audible. Also, woofers need to limber up, both cones and planars. That too is a measurable phenomenon, Magnepan says that the low frequency limit will go down by about 5 Hz.
    - RE: I agree and have something to add (big surprise, eh?). - pictureguy 22:11:15 09/19/10 (0)
      Agreed: Caps take from hours to days and depending on how loud you play it, the mylar indeed takes some 'working in'.
      
      My panels had a few weird comb effects / image problems for a few hours after initial turn on.
      Image would jump from side to side. Not even close to a subtle effect. Than, stability. nothing like the hundreds of hours some report.
      Too much is never enough
RE: myth or reality? - esande 19:55:25 09/18/10 (1)
Just relax and tell her she's right. Easy enough.

:-)
- RE: myth or reality? - lmckines2@paxio.net 19:57:47 09/18/10 (0)
  Your answer works best. No science will work better than telling her she's right. That way, she'll agree with me and let me do what the heck I wanted to do anyway. I'll tell her she's smarter than all of the audio nerds in the world! Heck, her ears may even Improve.
  Learn. Do. Earn!!!
RE: myth or reality? - gregmacknass2@netzero.com 19:31:47 09/18/10 (0)
I personally have never "broken in" a set of speakers like that before, and for several good reasons. I would hate to come home to find a failure occurred, and damage resulted from not being there. Or a fire (highly unlikely) but with my luck it would happen. The 1.7 is completely a quasi ribbon speaker, and is constructed differently than other maggies. Because of this I would think that there would be very little "break in" to be done, other than the crossover, and some "stretching" of the mylar. And this break in should not take too long (within a few weeks). With the wasted electricity, and the potential for damage, I say that it is just better to let it happen naturally. That is just my opinion though.

If you really must, some good reasons are.

"I pay the electric bill"
"Yes I will buy you those new shoes"
"The plants needed some entertainment"
"Even you'll hear the difference"
"If you turn it off, you'll break it"

Any of those should work quite nicely, or have you sleeping on the couch (more time to enjoy your system). Either way is a win. ; )

-Greg
RE: myth or reality? - ahendler 19:22:57 09/18/10 (1)
In the 1970's I had an amplifier go up in flames. I would not leave my stereo on if no one was home.
Alan
- RE: myth or reality? - MaggieLover 14:48:19 09/20/10 (0)
  The '70s is over 30 years ago. In addition yours is the only case of a stereo system catching fire from just being left on that I'm aware of. From that perspective you shouldn't leave on computers or other electronic or electrical products as well when not at home. In the real world, your experience not withstanding, there is little risk of a fire unless the house wiring is substandard and the circuit breakers are incapable of doing their job.
  
  Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
  
  Mark

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