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Coaxing as much treble out of my SMGa...

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I'm relatively new to planar speakers, having used Bose 601's with my Nikko NA-550 up to now.

I'm doing A/B testing to see which ones I like better. I like that the Maggies are smooth but I like the high end I get out of my other speakers.

It's a rather small room and I've got a desk and computer to deal with on the one end. I don't think I am getting everything out of them I should. They are currently placed approx. 2.5 feet away from the wall. 6.5 feet from each other and 6 feet or so from my ears. No toe-in because I read somewhere that toe-in is useless for maggies because of how they are engineered.

Follow Ups:

RE: Coaxing as much treble out of my SMGa... - Hoshi 02:06:11 09/02/10 (0)
I�ve got a pair of SMGa�s and here is what I�d recommend on the cheap. First, I�d try adding a bypass capacitor to your crossover. Simply add a cap valued a .01uf in parallel to the 50uf capacitor. You can choose one of many brands and they will all sound a bit different. The Sonicaps and Auricaps are a couple of good values and should not cost more than $5.00 to $18.00 each depending on which model you choose.

Another option would be to remove the metal tuning strip that covers a row of tweeter holes on the pole piece. This is not reversible but you can cover the holes back up again with some electrical tape if needed.

Upgrading your entire crossover and adding a pair of Linaeum tweeters will also get you there to a whole different level but we are talking about a major investment of time, effort and or course money.
RE: Coaxing as much treble out of my SMGa... - pictureguy 22:04:10 09/01/10 (0)
Toe them IN. NOW. Who told you NOT to toe them in?
Start with toe so they 'cross' behind you. Experiment away. As you near the 'best' spot, make smaller adjustments and listen longer between changes.

You may want to 'flip' them around.....right now you are probably listening to the MYLAR side.
Earlier designs were rotated so that the listener was nearest the Pole Piece side. At that time you can also experiment with swapping them L/R so the 'tweeter' side of the panel is either to the inside or the outside of the array.

I listen facing the pole pieces with the tweeters 'in'.

You may find, as others have before you, that toed to directly aim at the listener, Maggies can be a little bright. The 1.6s, for example, are supplied with a resistor to turn down the treble....just a little.
Too much is never enough
the 601's had a pretty ok tweeter from what I recall - Green Lantern 19:46:06 09/01/10 (0)
I've long admired the 601's; far better than the pair of 901's I owned some 30 years ago.
And it did have a decent tweeter; maybe not high-end caliper but far better than the 'discount store' variety IMO.

Having said that; and all things being equal, Bose couldn't lift Magnepan's cables off the carpet today in terms of overall performance(IMHO).

"You don't have to be faster than the lion....
just the guy running next to you.." -anonymous
Supertweeters? - johnvb 03:55:13 09/01/10 (0)
I noticed this inmate uses external Linaeum super tweeters with his SMGs. Also Madisound list many to chose from:
http://www.madisound.com/speakerparts/tweeters.php
And Parts Express (see list under tweeters):
http://www.parts-express.com//speakers.cfm?CFID=34234425&CFTOKEN=36835047
- Linaeum (Open in New Window)
Edits: 09/01/10 09/01/10
RE: Coaxing as much treble out of my SMGa... - DrChaos 21:41:30 08/31/10 (0)
positioning maggies is not that hard.

The trick is to use a monophonic source. Play it, and move speakers until the perceived image is directly in the center, sounds like a dot or vertical line, and does not move with frequency or volume.
RE: Coaxing as much treble out of my SMGa... - warmfires 21:18:40 08/31/10 (9)
Hi!!

Welcome to the forum. You will find plenty of help from some exceptional people around here, just as i did not too long ago.

I had 2 pairs of SMGa before,.. excellent, excellent speakers. But i was young and did not understand these babies, and tried to drive them with 30Watts of power. The end result was so horrendous that i sold the speakers off for a song, went back to boxed speakers, and cried. Once you hear maggies, there is no going back.

More power will help get more from your speakers. I drive my MMGs with 200w each channel now. And i do toe in a little to get the imaging right. Once you start moving them around, you will find a spot that allows the music to gel together as a whole, and that moment will be magic.

I don't subscribe to that school of thought that says you cannot toe Maggies in. Do experiment, you will find that many forumers here feel that toe in, finding the sweet magic spot is one of the biggest 'mods' to getting good sound from your Maggies.

Enjoy!

Warmfires.
This rovers crossed over
to the >>>SUNNY<<< side of the street
- 30 watt tube amp not enough??? - Dawnrazor 00:22:50 09/02/10 (5)
  That is soooo strange.
  
  The charts dont lie warmfires, you should get plenty of volume and drive out of just 30 watts.... :)
  
  No one here remembers the bending of our minds
  - RE: 30 watt tube amp not enough??? - warmfires 00:57:27 09/02/10 (4)
    Nope, not wanting to be difficult or anything, but this was my experience DR.
    
    My first pair of SMGa's were really very good. But i could not get them to work. Perhaps it has something to do with the amp's damping factor or output impedance or something else, but honestly, i heard the most god awful crackling sounds on the speakers. Kind-a like a conventional speaker with the voice coil shot, and you get that crackle to tell you that the voice coil wire is probably rubbing against the former in the voice call gap. I do hope i am using the right terminology.
    
    So thinking there was a major problem, i took it to the local dealer who ran them with a 50watter tube (a good one, maybe condrad johnson, or something similar), and it sounded fine. But even he did say that i was a fool to try to run maggies with 30watts. I sold them pretty quick. Foolish foolish foolish boy. Good SMGa's don't drop on my lap like that very often.
    
    Second pair i bought from a guy who was running them with NAIM gear. Oh how i loved that audition!! They sang so well at his place. Then of course i took them home and.... same crackling sound.
    
    then the tweeter died, got them repaired, then the midbass on one side died, and my attempts at repair just got the mylar ripped bad, and till this day they sit in a corner. They sit and sit and sit and sit until i send them off to maggie for a rebuilt.
    
    but the wife says that that will only happen after the divorce or her death. Me tweaking one pair of MMGs, using the dining room glass top table as a work bench is quite quite enough.
    
    she said.
    
    WF.
    This rovers crossed over
    to the >>>SUNNY<<< side of the street
    - RE: 30 watt tube amp not enough??? - Dawnrazor 01:35:17 09/02/10 (3)
      Sorry WF,
      
      I had some hoppy beer tonight.
      
      Not for a minute do I doubt you!!!
      
      A few months ago there was a debate about this very subject and one inmate said that 30watts was perfect if the amp "was good" or some thing like that, and a chart was produced showing db at a given wattage.
      
      I took issue with such a recommendation in that which amps were good was not defined, and something like the Antique sound labs would qualify IMHO. Well it looks like only the 10k variety of 30 watt tube amps are "good"....
      
      FWIW I think that dealer of yours is right, and yours is a prime example why I think it is dangerous to recommend 30 watts of tube power without listing model(s) that can pull it off.
      
      Here is an example of one of the "30 watts is enough" posts
      
      No one here remembers the bending of our minds
      http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=149190&highl (Open in New Window)
      - RE: 30 watt tube amp not enough??? - pictureguy 16:41:44 09/02/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 30 watt tube amp not enough??? posted by Dawnrazor on September 02, 2010 at 01:35:17
        
        Turned my panels up pretty loud.......measured about 20vac. Peaks were maybe 30v.
        Amp? ICE ASP500 modules. So power isn't an issue and there is an 80vdc rail.
        
        If the peak voltage were actually about 25v and I assume 6 ohms, than I was kicking about 100 watts while current was a tick over 4 amps....for the entire panel. Don't forget that 1.6s have a pretty good impedance peak near the crossover frequency of 600hz, where there is PLENTY of musical energy.
        
        I don't usually play that loud. 8 to 10 vac is usually quite loud enough. Just being curious but people should post DVM readings.
        Too much is never enough
      - RE: 30 watt tube amp not enough??? - warmfires 03:07:44 09/02/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 30 watt tube amp not enough??? posted by Dawnrazor on September 02, 2010 at 01:35:17
        
        It's all good DR, enjoy the beer my friend.
        
        We each must find our own way, using our own resources, our own ears. But the wonderful thing is we can share our journey and what we found to work for or against us, simply so it may help some other person.
        
        If at the end of it we cannot agree on 30Watts or 300Watts, we can respect that we are experiencing different things, perhaps we prefer slightly different aspects of presentation of this wonderful gift from ''the power that is'', that is music.
        
        Cheers!!
        
        WF
        This rovers crossed over
        to the >>>SUNNY<<< side of the street
      - But I wonder, DR, ... - andyr 03:00:32 09/02/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 30 watt tube amp not enough??? posted by Dawnrazor on September 02, 2010 at 01:35:17
        
        whether, if morricab could afford a 70w (or 100w) amp made by the same people, he would like it better? Of course, this would likely cost well in excess of $20K! :-))
        
        But then he would understand how " mo' is betta "!! :-))
        
        Regards,
        
        Andy
- RE: Coaxing as much treble out of my SMGa... - Bill of Greater NY 09:17:19 09/01/10 (2)
  Curious which 30 watt amp did you use? with those maggies at that time
  - RE: Coaxing as much treble out of my SMGa... - warmfires 18:02:01 09/01/10 (1)
    Bill,
    it was an Antique Sound Labs integrated tube amp. Very successfully drove my previous speakers, including a pair of Celestion SL700s, but not a good match with the SMG-A's.
    
    Now i use a NAD C270 power amp, along with a home made (not by me!!) tube pre amp, and am quite happy with the sound.
    
    WF.
    This rovers crossed over
    to the >>>SUNNY<<< side of the street
    - RE: Coaxing as much treble out of my SMGa... - Bill of Greater NY 18:35:37 09/01/10 (0)
      Made me think back to what I was pushing my SMG's back in the day. 25/25 Bedini sounded great in a small room but it did run out of steam every so often, they were great speakers...
RE: Coaxing as much treble out of my SMGa... - vandalfsens@mac.com 19:48:35 08/31/10 (2)
And another thing...if I provide more power than the Nikko (45wpc?) will that bring out even more to like in the SMGa?
- Yes ... - andyr 02:16:23 09/01/10 (1)
  The SMGas will take all th epower you can give them. An amp which can deliver lots of current into 4ohms is what you need.
  
  Warmfires said he has an amp which delivers 200w into 4ohms ... 400w would probably be better! :-))
  
  And as the others have said - experiment with toe-in. You need to end up with a nice wide soundstage and a solid centre image. :-))
  
  So try them pointed directly at your ears, with both tweeters in and tweeters out, decide which "presentation" you prefer and then play with less toe-in. I have 3-ways but the line from the midpoint between the ribbon and the centre of the mid-panel, points directly to my ears. Ribbons in.
  
  Regards,
  
  Andy
  - How about the AU-9900? - vandalfsens@mac.com 09:08:26 09/13/10 (0)
    I may have a lead on a Sansui AU-9900. The manual states it is rated at 80WPC at 8 AND at 4 ohms but is that really accurate?
    
    Does anyone know if this integrated is a dual mono design?

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