Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

Even Mercedes Benz had AMG offering higher performance aftermarket products.

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In Reply to: RE: I saw the point... posted by powermatic on August 03, 2010 at 21:04:20

Especially for those who found the standard fare unsatisfactory as is, not to mention all of the muscle car aftermarket sector. Look at Carroll Shelby starting with modifying cars from AC Motors of England. Yes, I am comparing high-end audio to performance tuning as it seems very analogous to me.

Follow Ups:

RE: Even Mercedes Benz had AMG offering higher performance aftermarket products. - DavidJames 07:49:57 08/04/10 (7)
One significant difference in your comparison is auto performance mods are easily measured and quantified. Not so much with audio mods as their value is almost always based subjective opinions.

I have no interest in being involved in a debate on audio tweaks other then to say this hobby is as close as you can get to a religious discussion without the deities. I've seen few tweaks provide objective measurable results and even fewer proof of audible differences.

Our ears and eyes are easily fooled. Ultimately it doesn't matter if what we hear is real or not as this entire hobby is subjective, but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend significant dollars for a tweak whose results can't be quantified.
- RE: Even Mercedes Benz had AMG offering higher performance aftermarket products. - josh358 20:11:41 08/04/10 (0)
  Many of the tweaks can be quantified, though, if one goes to the trouble. For example, many have reported deeper bass with the Mye stands. Someone actually measured it, and lo-and-behold, the bass was measurably deeper. Basic physics: more energy going to the air, rather than heating up the stands and frame as the speaker vibrates to and fro. Similarly, JBen measured significant differences in on-axis response for the mylar back configuration on the MMG, and I've seen response curves for Peter Gunn's series crossover, also on the MMG, which showed an improvement in midrange linearity that easily exceeds the known threshhold of audibility.
  
  In other cases, measurements haven't been made, but that doesn't mean the tweaks don't have an effect. In some cases, it isn't clear what one would measure. For example, some years back, I tried raising up my MMG's after reading about that tweak here. The result was an improvement in image height and imaging, and a reduction in bass response. That last can be measured, though I don't know of anyone who's bothered. Or predicted theoretically. The first can be measured as well, with a ruler which shows that the vertical acoustic center of the drivers is now at the height of my ears.
  
  But -- what measurement would predict an improvement in imaging when the speakers are in a vertical position? I assume it's a function of the relationship between the reflections and the direct sound from the front of the speaker, but I have no idea how to measure the improvement, nor do I particularly feel the need to, since everyone for whom I demonstrated the change said "Wow."
  
  Not that I'm arguing with you about the religious aspect -- I believe that listener bias plays a significant role in the reaction of listeners to some changes. But there are lots of modifications that have a sound theoretical basis, and many produce effects that have been measured, or could be, if someone took the time.
- " I'll be damned if I'm going to spend significant dollars for a tweak whose results can't be quantified." ... - andyr 17:57:48 08/04/10 (2)
  Then you will remain ignorant of the better sonics that, say, a hardwood frame does for MMGs, my friend ... because I'm sure there's little or no measureable difference but there sure as hell is a sonic difference.
  
  I'd also like your comment on what you could actually measure (ie. quantify) in terms of the output of a Maggie being driven by 2 different power amplifiers (let's make it easy - both have the same "power") when one sounds average and the other sublime?
  
  Regards,
  
  Andy
  - For both of your questions... - DavidJames 19:16:42 08/04/10 (1)
    But first "I'm sure there's little or no measureable difference" Why are you so sure?
    
    Now to my responses.
    
    Why can't the difference be measured? The sound waves comes from the speaker, correct? Are you saying the sound waves would be identical in both of your scenarios? If they are not identical, then they can be measured. If you think they would be identical, why would you hear a difference. Please be specific.
    - RE: For both of your questions... - andyr 19:48:47 08/04/10 (0)
      You asked why am I so sure there would be little or no measureable difference?
      
      Well I've never seen anyone post any measurements "with MDF" vs. "with hardwood". This may be because they tried and failed - or it may be because they couldn't be bothered? Or some other reason. But not only I but half a dozen of my audiophile mates have heard the difference without any measurements to back this up - so, by your way of thinking, we must all be deluded! :-))
      
      And what would you measure, to account for the comment (made by someone who basically doesn't like Maggies! :-)) ) "Wow, they are now interesting to listen to!"??
      
      Then you went into the "engineer's mantra" of "If they are not identical, then the difference can be measured. If you think they would be identical, why would you hear a difference?".
      
      It seems to me that sometimes, we don't know what to measure, to account for an audible difference. If we did - and there was a machine to measure it ... then, yes, we could account for the audible difference.
      
      For instance - what property do you measure to account for the fact that some amps deliver emotion in the music you're hearing ... and other amps don't?
      
      What property do you measure to explain why silver wire can sound "edgy" compared to copper wire?
      
      Regards,
      
      Andy
- measurements on loudspeakers - gymwear5@hotmail.com 09:36:31 08/04/10 (2)
  are easier and MUCH cheaper to make than those required for automobiles... The only problem is that most those on this asylum would really care...
  
  Lets try one hypothetically right now.
  
  The replacement of the fuse with a solid aluminum rod reduced the impedance of my MMG's at 2KHz and up to 25KHz by a resistive 0.012 +/- .005 Ohms. over five different measurement trials preformed.
  - yes, but - wazoo 14:40:06 08/04/10 (1)
    The exercise you detailed is not the way to eliminate the fuse. By the simple movement of a wire (and the 'unplugging' of another), the entire fuse and resistor circuitry is removed from the picture. Any reduction in connections is a step forward - surely this much can be accepted without resorting to special pleading. For the record, I did not find this step to be some awe inspiring improvement, but it sure did 'feel' like the right thing to do.
    
    Just removing the connector plate to do that prompted me to do more - for better or worse ;-)
    
    "Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
    - RE: yes, but - gymwear5@hotmail.com 13:33:22 08/06/10 (0)
      Well you fall into the logical trap of HIGH END proposed by a reviewer over three decades ago... "Anything in the signal path has to affect the sound (or signal) in an audible way." Pure Malarkey. Heck a lot of things in the signal path help the sound! Crossovers, for instance. prevent a driver from being driven into non linear behavior

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