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RE: Tympani wiring

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In Reply to: RE: Tympani wiring posted by gregmacknass2@netzero.com on July 11, 2010 at 11:25:18

Surpricing!

The bass have the same length of wire. AWG24 copper vs. AWG22 aluminium. Gives the same resistance! 3.8 Ohm for each driver. I-D should be a 4 Ohm speaker. The mass of the wiring is 84 gram for the copper and 40 gram for the aluminium. If the bass drivers of I-D are 8 Ohm/each, the wiring must be AWG25. The mass would go down to 20 gram. I thought the tweeter of I-D is 4 Ohm, two loops of AWG35 connected in parallel and half the mass of the I-C and III-A tweeter.
Roger Gustavsson

Follow Ups:

RE: Tympani wiring - gregmacknass2@netzero.com 11:03:51 07/12/10 (11)
The 1d tweeters are 2 loops connected in parallel. These measurements for resistance were taken yesterday with a Fluke DMM. It showed the tweeters as 10.6 ohms, and the bass panels as 7.9 ohms. If you look at the link that I have provided it shows the crossover design of the 1d. As you can see the woofers have a 4 ohm resistance, 2 8 ohm drivers in parallel gives you 4 ohms. Apparently there is something wrong with the tweeter that I measured, as I have not rebuilt it yet. It should be reading at 4 ohms, and mot 10, so something is wrong with it. As for the gauges of the wires I was just guessing at the approximate size of the wire. AWG25 for the bass and AWG35 for the tweets could very well be right.
-Greg
- tympani 1d crossover schematic (Open in New Window)
- RE: Tympani wiring - richduffler 19:38:20 06/16/12 (7)
  I'm new to most of these audio sites, but not audio.I just rebuilt/rewired a pr. of 1D's and want to share some and ask some. It's 2012 and Sheila has taken Margaret's place (Margaret retired).Replacement tweeters are now $250 ea. (original wire tweeters not quasi or ribbons). The "socks" are $31.50 ea. the rewire kit for a panel pair is $50. The mid/bass wire gage is 25G. They no longer sell a rebuild kit for the tweeters.I had to rewire 1 of the b/m panels in each speaker as they corroded "open" so I redid all 4. Sheila says the tweeter wire is 36g. Both my tweeters work so far as they are just out of storage and I don't expect them to last since the b/m panels didn't fare too well ,36g holds up better than 25g??? I bi amp my 1d's w/the recommended audio research passive pc-3 crossover. My tweeters ohm out at about 5 ohms (not 4). I researched and printed out a LOT of info on how to and the different methods of how to rewire the 1d's. For many reasons I decided on NOT using a jig, power supply's or any other adhesive than the 30-nf magnepan supplies. I may have the time to submit my methods as I can fill in some holes on how to do this for you Craftsman out there.( if interested?). I got my wires dead straight almost as straight as the original but it was a time consuming process. Hint: you can't/don't stretch the wire straight but draw it across your index finger to "form" it as you lay it down. use steel pieces to temp. hold in place and "tack" every couple inches etc. w/the 30-nf (thinned despite what maggie or the can says). multiple thin coats are better than 1 or 2 thick coats. It will look better and for sure sound better.
  
  Sweet talking sheila resulted in her having a "girl in the back" try to spool off some of the 36g tweeter wire they have left for repairs, for me. It kept breaking on her so the "frustration level" precluded me getting some of the wire so far. I was able to get sheila to try to have the "tech" try to spool me some when back from medical leave. I just wanted to have the wire to try a rebuild if necessary instead of paying $500 for new tweeters. I've rewound HO slot car arms w/39g magnet wire so I know how hard this stuff can be to work with. I've tried to source 36g Aluminum magnet wire and am having no luck unless I'm willing to pay about....wait for it... $500.
  
  I'm still half heartedly looking for some of the 36g al wire.
  
  Be gentle if this is the "wrong place "to post some of this. I have little computer time as compared to my refurb time. After rebuilding the 1d's I've had to rewire a thorens tp-16 arm and readjust the auto lift. (a nightmare). restore and line source array a pr. of RTR esr 15's, and yet another remod/tweek of a pas3x preamp, and retube and tweek a st-70. the list goes on. thx. Rich
  - RE: Tympani wiring - hescruising 16:26:20 08/02/12 (4)
    I'm trying to find the open wire in my mid-bass panel, ID's. Does anyone have a pictorial diagram of the voice coil layout. It looks like the middle couple of coils are double wound. Also it appears that they are 2 coils in series.
    - RE: Tympani wiring - Roger Gustavsson 02:40:11 08/03/12 (3)
      I think the layout of the wires are identical to my IIIA, at least that is the case for the low bass panel. The two loops of wire are connected in series to give about 8 ohm on each bass driver.
      Hee isa picture: http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4022/4474121568_2dda1b24e0_b.jpg
      Just do not use glue allover the Mylar as is the picture. The glue is only for holding the wire to the Mylar.
      
      Roger Gustavsson
      
      Edits: 08/03/12
      - RE: Tympani wiring - hescruising 06:53:14 08/04/12 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tympani wiring posted by Roger Gustavsson on August 03, 2012 at 02:40:11
        
        Thanks for the reply Roger, I contacted Shiela at Magnepan and she sent me a wiring diagram for the mid/bass panels. I will redraw it to clarify the identity of the wires and post it soon. I did find a break in the voice coil wiring and thankfully it occurred on a single run. The wire is aluminum. Any thoughts on bridging the open? I thought of lifting up both sides of the wire and applying a bridge across them. Not sure how to solder aluminum. I've been reading posts using DAP weldwood.
        
        RE: Tympani wiring - tyu 07:35:00 08/04/12 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tympani wiring posted by hescruising on August 04, 2012 at 06:53:14
        
        so you say
        
        I thought of lifting up both sides of the wire and applying a bridge across them. Not sure how to solder aluminum. I've been reading posts using DAP weldwood.
        
        Dont solder....the heat well get to the Mylar...less you pull up a lot of wire an this can cut the mylar... then back to magnepan an big $$....it well brake agin..Its old Aluminum....if you see any other lite spots on the wire...it going south to....i have done full rewires of magnepans
        This is what i have found.....goodluck
        
        RE: Tympani wiring - Roger Gustavsson 09:22:01 08/04/12 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Tympani wiring posted by tyu on August 04, 2012 at 07:35:00
        
        Yes, if the wire is brooken in one place, it use to be the beginning of a complete failure. After a while you will have to replace all of the wire. Nowdays, Magnepan uses a better glue, no need to use anything else. I think that most Tympani I-D would also need new Mylar, it certainly ages and get less elastic.
        
        Roger Gustavsson
  - RE: Tympani wiring - tyu 05:56:07 06/17/12 (0)
    Thanks for all an any info on Magnepans....
    I would go with the tweeter wire for like the MG2....last time i ck it was $7.50 US a roll thay have it i think....i have done re-wires of the base an the tweeters...tweeers are vary eze....goodluck
  - RE: Tympani wiring - Roger Gustavsson 23:46:24 06/16/12 (0)
    Thank you for this information. AWG 25 for basses and AWG 36 for tweeters. I am interested in knowing even more about the I-D. The tuning frequencies written on the edge of the bass drivers? 46 and 55 Hz for the low bass drivers?%55, 70 and 80 Hz for the mid bass? Have you checked the curvature of the bass panels, the perforated sheet metal plates? Does the tweeters have a strip of aluminium tape attached to the front of perforated plates? Tympani IIIA have that. Seems to sit there to 'hide" a high frequency peak. If the tweeters are turned, they sound brighter. I forgot to measure them from both sides in 1985. Yes, the AWG 36 wire is not available any more. I guess their stock of tweeters for I-D is small too. I case of failure, thinner Mylar and foil wire could be a way to go.
    
    "I've tried to source 36g Aluminum magnet wire and am having no luck unless I'm willing to pay about....wait for it... $500."
    
    How much wire do you get for $500? There use to be a minimum order of several hundred kg at must suppliers.
    
    Roger Gustavsson
- RE: Tympani wiring - monk1 21:22:13 07/16/10 (2)
  Greg,
  I just measured the tweeter on my 1D and it is 5.2 Ohm using a Fluke 322 meter. It appears you may have an open circuit in one of the two voice coils.
  
  Edits: 07/16/10
  - RE: Tympani wiring - roger.barbara@bredband.net 03:35:38 07/18/10 (1)
    Have you checked the accuracy of your DMMs at these low resistances?
    Roger Gustavsson
    - RE: Tympani wiring - monk1 13:54:43 07/18/10 (0)
      Fluke states an accuracy of 1% plus or minus 5 counts for the range between 0 to 400 Ohm. So the reading of 5.2 should be somewhere between 4.7 and 5.7 Ohm neglecting lead resistance. That said, the 322 meter hasn't been to the calibration lab for several years. I measured some 10% carbon resistors in the 20 to 50 Ohm range and results seemed reasonable although one resistor (20 Ohm) read 30% higher than expected.
      Edit: I also measured a couple of 5% wire wound resistors with the following results:
      1 Ohm resistor measured between 1.1 to 1.2 Ohm (readings fluctuated)
      10 Ohm resistor measured 10.2 Ohm
      Even at the lower end of the range the readings seem quite reasonable.
      
      Edits: 07/18/10 07/18/10 07/18/10 07/18/10

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