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In Reply to: RE: Sound associated hearing damage. posted by Nicoro on March 02, 2025 at 22:29:31
"BUT it takes time for it to happen."Ding, ding, ding! Absolutely correct!
This is a little-known (among the general population as well as many audio folks) characteristic of our hearing.
Interestingly, microphones, even very high quality microphones, have a similar characteristic. For example, take a Sennheiser MD441 dynamic, and compare its response to a gunshot versus a B&K measurement microphone. Or, try any commonly used condenser (AKG C451 or C414, Neumann U87 or KM84, etc.). One could say that microphones are "self-limiting". ;) Although they don't "completely" ignore the initial peak, they're not fast enough to respond "well" to it.
:)
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We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
Edits: 03/03/25Follow Ups:
It's well known. Industrial noise level charts are referenced to dB and time of exposure. The simple reason why very high dB peaks don't bother our hearing is the time of exposure is too short. OTOH levels that we don't find uncomfortable can result in hearing damage with long term exposure.
I took a summer job, at a Chrysler factory, right after high school and before college.I'm pretty sure the constant high level of noise 12hours/7days overtime on the afternoon shift may have been quite damaging.
OSHA save levels were modified/published as 85 db for 8 hours as "safe," instead of the former 90 db A wighted specification, which was too damn loud in my view in the last milleninum (don't know date of changes).
Even more so, perhaps, than the intermittent time I spent with local Garage bands with friends playing drums, guitars, and 200 Watt Marshall Tube amplifiers on overdrive to creating 110+ db the desireable rock sound of the day.
Or even longer exposures at bars when they got paying gigs and the alcohol law was 18 for a while.
These days, I try to stick to 83 or less. I admit to an occasional demo to show off the system for other men (women don't care) at 93 db levels.
Since most commercial recordings never have more than a 10 db crest factor with maybe 20 db on rare recordings, it's not a worrisome thing.
Live is alway worse than recorded, since we can all agree that, starting with microphones mixing boards, and limiters/compressors in the rest of the chain of events................it's a fully controllable issue.
Edits: 03/03/25
I probably could have written it better - it is well-known among professionals who are tuned-in to how our hearing works. But it's not well-known among many audio folks who've never been educated on the topic. Ask the typical "sound engineer" doing sound reinforcement, and he'll look at you like a deer in the headlights.
"very high dB peaks don't bother our hearing"
It bothers our hearing, we're just not cognizant of it and our middle ear is "asleep at the switch", and that's the sticky wicket.
:)
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We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
I know about very high dB peaks. As if playing in bands since I was 15 wasn't enough there was a three month period in '72 when I was firing over a hundred .30-06 rounds a day, every day, with no protection. It never affected me. My upper limit now is 12kHz, but that's normal for someone 75 years old.
I think that's not bad for 75. When you look at the harmonics of musical instruments, you're only missing a couple/three of them, which are at low levels anyway. I wonder, do you have a notch in the "few K" range from firearms shooting? Apparently, that's a "thing", although I don't follow that stuff.
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We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
No notches, except on the stock of my M1903.
When you are correct, you are right! LOL
You want to hear noise go to a can making factory!! Where they make make coke beer cans etc. In the 80s was asked what can be done? Told them about noise cancelling speakers and how to do it. Don't know if they listened. BFM 11kHz limit being "normal" for age does not make it right. Did competitive shooting with ear protection just a a few rounds without protection make my ears ring temporarily...not good! Lots of musician friends with Tinnitus in their 30s!! Really we need to educate the youth!!
"You want to hear noise go to a can making factory!!"
I'm sure!
Waaaay back in my 20s, when I was installing commercial sound systems, one system was in a factory with 5-ton and 10-ton metal presses. THAT was loud. :)
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
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