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In Reply to: RE: "Polite" speakers posted by Bill Fitzmaurice on September 24, 2022 at 05:21:20
Measurements don't say much about the performance of audio equipment: that's why different resistors or capacitors that measure the same sound completely different. A long list of articles doesn't change that and if you can't hear the difference that's ok as well because we all hear in different ways - in a sense you're a happy man because you don't have to go through the pains the rest of us have to go through.
Follow Ups:
You are wasting your time. Cable skeptics will always have the last word, you know, because "measurements".
Hell, even the 15 inches of wire between my passive crossovers and my drivers make a tremendous difference (going from Belden 9497 to solid core Neotech UP-OCC was like cleaning a window covered in 10 years dust) but DON'T MENTION IT or someone will jump at your throat....and the fact that the audio cable business is so flourishing just means one thing: there's greed on one side and idiots on the other side (an incredibly high number of idiots, if you ask me, but we will always be on the wrong side of the fence, because measurements, so we will always be the idiots, and we will always lose this conversation!)
Most people couldn't tell a Kondo amplifier from a Best Buy Onkyo during a blind test, because a blind tests puts you in such competitive and stressful condition that it acts negatively on your perceptions - psychoacoustics and bias work both ways, but no one ever mentions it of course. The only way to assess the benefits of a cable is to plug it in your system, and listen to it for a long period just like you would do with any component.
Rant over, and NO I'm not going any deeper in this argument, but YES silver cable can help an overly smooth / polite system, and I know where I stand on the matter.
Have a great day everyone.
Edits: 09/25/22
As if a 10% difference in expensive conductivity (with greater oxidation potential) could ever be noticed in the dynamic test of music.
Moving a speaker by 1/10th of a meter from it's initial position will make a far greater difference than wire conductivity, and that would certainly be audible by any measure.
I have greater faith in measurements (required in speaker design) than I do unproven opinions from people who choose to ignore the truth or are afraid to find out they wasted their money.
Buy more MUSIC!
Thanks for your comment, agree! Especially important is long-term listening: I find the A/B tests are not helpful at all and the only way to real understand the character of a component is listening to it for a period of time.
Ah yes, the oh so typical "I'm a golden ear and you're not" comment by people with no will or access to an AB/X box.
If Paul W Klipsch were alive today, he would hand you one of his "Bullshit" buttons.
I propose that the ONLY thing long term listening does is what I call:
"LISTENER BREAK IN" as opposed to the the usual, fully exaggerated "Speaker Break In." Just because a greater number of people propagate Audio Myths than those who use Science to prove them wrong, doesn't make them Right, just more popular.
You can stop pulling the P.W. Klipsch argument, as much as I respect the man and the brand for its general history and philosophy (very high efficiency) his "no bullshit" approach was partly responsible for putting on the market some of the "honkiest", screechiest speakers in stock form. We both know it, as we both are members of the Klipsch forums, and you're very actively proposing upgrades (very good upgrades, and I thank you for that). But years have passed and thankfully engineers at Klipsch have moved on from the 1940's.
Paying attention to acoustics and speaker placement shouldn't stop you from trying different cables, both things aren't mutually exclusive, and "fancy cables" don't have to cost thousands. Yawn.
Let's agree to disagree on this, no one is forcing you or anyone else to buy audiophile cables, but please let's respect everyone.
"We both know it, as we both are members of the Klipsch forums, and you're very actively proposing upgrades (very good upgrades, and I thank you for that). But years have passed and thankfully engineers at Klipsch have moved on from the 1940's."
Ah, yes more opinions with gross exaggerations. Paul Klipsch was 36 in 1940, and died in 2002, he was actively involved with the Jubilee bass bin design, along with the tractrix horn that went on top of it as a 2-way system. Suggesting that he did not progress in the following 62 years is not even in the same conversation. He was fully aware and made use of better drivers and higher order networks, including modern DSP Xovers with Time Delay features.
What I MOSTLY object to is the FACT that there are speaker cables, with a free bottle of snake oil, that were priced at $15,000 and higher. The guy who bought my Khorns in 2007 sold his "used" cables for the same price he paid me for my Klipschorns.
So I don't care what kind of "stupid money" is being spent out there, just like all the people that play their systems at "stupid loud" levels at concerts.
In PRINCIPLE and Actuality, I want no part of either one. Now about Capactitors.....................
It bears seeing again from time to time.
Ethan Winer's cable NULL tester would be almost as feared as the dreaded AB/X box (which I experienced when I was a kid member of the AES in Mich).
Ethan Winer does not require a BS filter.
I have no problem with people buying whatever cables they want. But even the most "polite" (meaning low efficiency direct radiators) of which I heard about 30 pairs over the weekend, simply do NOT need enough copper to jump start a locomotive. It a simple RLC issue, nothing more.Besides I'd rather talk about the best high efficiency speaker designer of modern times, Tom Danley or Danley sound labs. My SH-50's only use 18 AWG wire inside.
But to quote PWK one more time when I asked him why the 1985 Khorns were using Monster Cable in their Crossovers, his reply: "It's the marketing people who want this. It's a waste of good copper just to drive 30 AWG wire in a woofer voice coil."
Another fact ignored by the quasi-religious folks about wires.
Edits: 09/28/22 09/28/22
I think a good day with an ABX box would humble you and teach you lessons you are unwilling to learn otherwise.
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