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Christ, no wonder this forum took a dive from the old days--people calling horns "waveguides" and discussions about chinless mini speakers. I own some Monitor Audio minis but won't bore you with the details.
Follow Ups:
The main difference AFAIK is that "waveguides" usually do not increase efficiency much (if at all). But if/when a waveguide does increase efficiency, it is only going to be at the lower end of the frequency spectrum...
Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.
All horns are wave guides. Not all wave guides are horns. In order to have gain a horn throat must be less than a wavelength in dimension. You very much can have a horn that gives gain in the low end but not the high end, for that reason. A true wave guide has no gain, as the throat is too big for loading. But the main difference between a wave guide and a horn from a real world standpoint is what you call it, and why. Horns have an undeserved reputation for having a honking tone, making them a difficult sell to those who listen with their eyes rather than their ears. Calling horns wave guides is how the marketeers get around using the dreaded 'H' word.
.
Well said, Bill.
Thanks. Here's an example of wave guide marketeering, the Dayton H6512:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-H6512-6-1-2-x-12-Waveguide-1-3-8-18-TPI-270-318
Its description says 'A waveguide couples the high frequency driver to the listening space without the harmful distortion artifacts of marginally designed and implemented horn loading. It achieves this through the use of non-traditional geometries and lower expansion rates. The resultant sound has less distortion, with an "open" characteristic not often associated with typical "pinched" or "honky" compression driver/horn combinations. Dayton Audio professional waveguides reveal all of the articulate, accurate sound reproduction that your HF drivers are capable of delivering, whether the application is live sound, critical studio monitoring, or demanding home audio playback.'
Problem is it's all marketing piffle. It's a knockoff of the Pyle PH612, which Pyle unapologetically calls a horn:
https://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PH612
Just picked these up, and I am amazed at the way they blow the big klipsch's away- out of the the park! The way you can really hear the musicians interact because all the parts are coming thru uninterrupted and fluid... Keep rediscovering old favorites- bliss! now there veneer repair process will start. Thank you for the recommendation!
Hey, I have a pair of those. They sound good, but not great. I'm guessing they need a crossover update.
Any suggestions on caps and whatnot to fix them up? Everything is original.
Much obliged.
Ahh, the 890c Bolero with the mighty 406-8C woofer which was carefully designed to mimic the Technicolor tone of the large Altec systems based on VOT drivers. Thus the 3" voice coil, the motor from the 414 and the dual profile cone.
I had a pair of those years ago and am considering getting another pair.
I recall meeting you at Magnetar's place for Ears & Beers.
We were sitting on the back patio to avoid "ear damage" due to the 120dB+ tunes that were blasting from the "Stargate" horn system or whatever Magnetar called it at the time.
The cops showed up because of the noise and you took off.
Not heard from Magnetar in years.
He was a good guy but could get really crazy at times.
DT 667
ya know Tom - that vibrant - shimmering "theater sound" one might associate with movie theaters of our youth - - I almost bet that was at plagued with "HOM".At the bottom of this post is alink a cut which shimmers on PWK's Heritage K400 (I know you hate K700 but to me that sounds fine with early 1960's DG and Fritz Wunderlich singing lieder)
Anyhow, that shimmer and enhanced "reverb" was gone on a 2-way of Eminence B102 (weak magnet 2nd version) and Morel 3-78 vs the old honker (my Klipschorn)
Now a K-tube might not even be a waveguide (??) One fellow at Diyaudio ditched his Le Cléac'h horn for the old Transylvania Power Company "The Tube" with fancy fieldcoil driver. The midrange K-tube in his setup looks like something which fell off of Mechagodzilla . . .
Karlson Evangelist
Edits: 03/25/21
With the sound of Music ..........
:)
Howdy, Tom.
all the best,
mrh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoPqO-nDrQQ
The Trooper
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
:-)
Speaking only for myself, still rocking horns!
I recently gave up full time RV living and moved into an apartment. I have a modest but pretty good sounding stereo and after I sort things out will be back with horns--604s and Tannoys are on my mind.
Tom
I had an epiphany at your house in the early oughties listening to your Altec VOT rig. I had always liked horns, my dad built some DIY horns with mostly EV parts back in the early 60's, and they were inspired by a neighbor who had a very spectacular horn rig in his basement then. Horns just sounded more like live music, but it was only at your house that I realized where this preference really came from. It was the sound at the movies in someone's home that made me realize that this had been hard wired into my brain by the sound of those Altecs behind the movie screen all those years growing up. Horns fell on hard times with the appearance of ever cheaper and more powerful transistor amps in the late 60's and 70's, and the increasing influence of former underground magazines like Stereophile and TAS who didn't like horns. And horns came back big time when Sound Practices magazine exploded on the scene in the early 90's. You were a pioneer on the right side of history!
Paul
Yeah Paul, that's why I liked to give a system the Ben Hur test, to see if it could reproduce the first notable sound I heard--when I was 10 years old in 1959 seeing the roadshow version of Ben Hur and was thrilled by the opening blast of the overture music in all it's magnetic multi track splendor.
Tom the Tannoy XT Revolution Dual Concentric Series consists of two floor standing models two stand mount versions and a centre channel. I am running the smallest stand mount version the XT Mini a true DC with a woofer cone only 3.25" in diametre. In a modest living/dining room 14' wide by about 30' long I can make a lot of listeners think I am running subs. I do plan to include subs but not jut now. These remind me of ProAc tablets in the way they surprise you with dynamics and ease and how well they stage image and disappear. They took a long time to burn in from new and need attention to detail as to set up but it was worth the wait and effort. I have then set up in a ten foot equilateral triangle. I also bought a set of the larger stand mount model the XT6 but I prefer the XT Mini as it has a smaller tweeter comp driver diaphragm(about 3/4" in the XT Mini and 1" in the other stand and floor versions), if you wanted more level than the Mini the XT6 would be the go to version in my opinion. Check them out if you can. I have had Tannoy Silver (12") Monitor Gold (12") HPD (12" & 15") and some other assorted Tannoy and I think the XT is the very best they have done to date. My local dealer has an assortment of current Tannoy Prestige series and so far as the sound goes I would not trade for a Tannoy Canterbury (big bucks).
moray james
thereby raising the quality of the conversation in these parts.
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