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RE: Probably not good enough to notice 0.0002% THD and IMD ;-)

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In Reply to: RE: Probably not good enough to notice 0.0002% THD and IMD ;-) posted by AbeCollins on March 07, 2025 at 10:32:31

Well, we can certainly define "accuracy" in audio components: The least damage to the signal.

Tube preamps all produce substantial distortion, relatively small but not after subsequent amplification down the line, and transformer coupling (I don't recall if the Cary is TX-coupled) causes very substantial bandwidth-limitation and resultant phase-shift.

(The very audible effect of TX output stage of the DirectStream DAC I used to run was one of the reasons I got rid of it.)

"On a related note that wasn't detailed, did you compare the Freya+ vs Kara in Passive vs Passive mode? Any difference?"

I never compared the two side-by-side, but in passive mode the two should be identical. No gain stage in the circuit. I guess the only differences might be due to inference from the different power supplies - likely of tiny/no factor since I think Schiit knows what they're doing in that regard...

Follow Ups:

RE: Probably not good enough to notice 0.0002% THD and IMD ;-) - AbeCollins 23:11:18 03/07/25 (3)
In your earlier post you mentioned how good the Freya+ is but your preference is for the Kara. How so? How did the Kara sound to you compared to the Freya+? I assume you were talking about Active vs Active modes between the two.
You might enjoy Amir and the Audio Science Review website. They're all about signal measurements there.

Edits: 03/07/25
- RE: Probably not good enough to notice 0.0002% THD and IMD ;-) - PaulF70 17:33:05 03/10/25 (2)
  Sorry to be unclear about that but I never owned the Freya. I did hear one once and was going by that and user reports in general.
  
  The Freya is a very good tubed linestage, as with everything Schiit does. And its measurements are very good indeed. But, I become very familiar with what tubed linestages do, over 20 year or so, and don't really desire that sound signature anymore.
  
  You misunderstood me as believing that measurements are everything. They are something - not everything. My ears and the experience I have are the "everything."
  
  I'm not a fan of Audio Science Review because I find the fellow who runs it (who uses a woman as his avatar) to be rather annoying, and extremely naive in some ways.
  
  During the period in which I actively and routinely evaluated gear, I owned, in total, something like $500K worth. I've had dozens of tubed preamps, including boutique pieces from the likes of Shindo, as well as at least 30 horribly-measuring SET amps. My humble opinion now: It's all tone controls.
  
  Ten years ago, no one knew how to measure gear at all. The worse-sounding solid-state amps "measured well" because nobody was measuring high-order THD on peaks and crossover distortion. We're past that now, mostly.
  
  The Purifi switching amp modules are, essentially, perfect. They measure it, *and sound it.*
  
  So, my bliss now is a top-rate digital front end, a humble passive linestage, a good Purifi amp, and electrostatic speakers.
  
  Still, audio will always be a subjective experience. And the best-sounding room at every show (IMHO), High Water sound, is all vinyl & SETs.
  - RE: Probably not good enough to notice 0.0002% THD and IMD ;-) - PaulF70 19:35:32 03/12/25 (0)
    Cool stuff!
    
    I did own one Curl phonostage. Definitely he knew what he was doing.
  - RE: Probably not good enough to notice 0.0002% THD and IMD ;-) - Inmate51 06:28:50 03/11/25 (0)
    "Ten years ago, no one knew how to measure gear at all. The worse-sounding solid-state amps "measured well" because nobody was measuring high-order THD on peaks and crossover distortion. "
    That's not "entirely" true. While there probably are many designers who "know about it" and can probably measure it and design around it, many don't, simply because it's more expensive and requires a higher level of design talent. But the knowledge and measurement methods have been out there for several decades.
    Here are a couple of places where you can start to explore the history:
    https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=amp&m=208080
    https://proaudiodesignforum.com/images/pdf/Leinonen_Otala_Curl_TIM_Measurement.pdf
    John is adamant (rightly so) about high-order harmonic distortion, and has shown me some measurements on his test equipment. As a musician, I surmise that at least part of the audible issue is caused by the difference between natural harmonics and the musical scale of "equal temperament". He and I have not talked about this aspect in any depth, but we should, even if just to separate a little more chaff from the wheat, so to speak.
    
    *********
    
    We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
    - Leinonen, Otala and Curl, 1976 (Open in New Window)
    Edits: 03/11/25 03/11/25

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