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that some audio enthusiasts go over so many systems trying to find that sound that satisfies their brains and their souls when the solution is a hearing aid?
It happened to me.
Dan
Follow Ups:
1. Those with hearing loss (most of us after a certain age) are better off to just turn up the volume rather than get professional help. -- Hearing loss is frequency dependent so overall gain is not likely helpful.
2. Those who admit to loss but believe those low-hundred $ devices advertised on TV and in magazines are the answer. -- Hearing is more complex than vision and multiple parameters should be considered, not simply level gain.
3. Just get an equalizer to adjust frequency levels for loss. -- But frequency levels are not the same throughout the room, so adjustments for one spot may not be good elsewhere. Also, what will be the affect for anyone else listening in the room at the same time?
4. Hearing aids produce "artificial" sound so one is better off listening without them. -- But once overtones are reduced or eliminated (higher frequencies where loss typically occurs first) then voice and instrumental nuance will be lost. And why must a hearing aid be more artificial than our playback system to begin with?
5. They are too expensive. -- Admittedly some models are quite costly. But careful shopping can be key, and a good audiologist will not oversell proper aids. And how much do you have invested in your system and software anyway?
6. I tried them and didn't like them. -- Two solutions: find a competent audiologist, not a drugstore clerk, for proper fitting. And most importantly, be patient. One or two fittings may be good for speech, but music is more complex and may require multiple adjustments to fine tune for individual hearing loss. Again, this is not like glasses where one fitting is often successful. There are multiple elements for adjustment in quality hearing aids (frequency, gain, directionality, masking, etc.) and reasonable tonal accuracy will likely require some trial and error.
Of course the individual must admit they possibly have some hearing loss to begin with. "I can hear fine, just don't mumble." ;^)
"The only cats worth anything are the cats who take chances. Sometimes I play things I never heard myself." Thelonious Monk
It isn't even close.
For starters at least 50% of what you think you see is information retrieved from memory. The brain is just so sophisticated in dealing with visual information that this fact is in practice largely imperceptible.
Research into stroke victims is one of the few ways to study how we see
(the lesson here is that if you must have a stroke have an interesting one).
There is the case of the man who had a small but particular area of his visual cortex in one of the brain's hemispheres destroyed, from then on in he was incapable to recognize faces. Every morning he looked in the mirror while shaving he did not recognize himself and if he met his wife outdoors he only recognized her once she was speaking.
A man in Canada lost the exact same region in the other hemisphere in an accident and was incapable of putting names to objects.
A woman in Autria had another small part damaged and was incapable of perceiving motion. She saw static images which were updated every couple of seconds.
It would require more education than I have to determine complexities of hearing compared to vision.
I have glasses, worn as needed, and hearing aids, worn nearly all waking hours. The testing for each was vastly different. Vision correction testing is mainly done with a few direct comparisons. That can be done within maybe 15 minutes. Hearing correction testing requires an audiogram which is a much more detailed set of trials for both amplitude and speech discrimination. But then you are not done. Speech discrimination may require some adjustments to the hearing aids, or if lucky maybe not. But music, particularly tonality, may not be so fortunate with hearing aid manufacturer's recommended settings. That may require multiple cycles of having the aids adjusted, living with them for a week or two to experience various music listening situations, then returning for further adjustment.
But this comes with one caveat. The average person with hearing loss may only be interested in improved speech recognition. A basic fitting with new hearing aids and possibly one adjustment may be all that is needed. The average Inmate will likely also be concerned with musical presentation and tonalities (OK, possibly spatiality, frequency, dynamics, etc. as well). So they will expect better results with a music program than "standard" settings can provide. At least that was my experience. But my patience with continued fine tuning was rewarded with reasonable accuracy with instrumental tonalities.
"The only cats worth anything are the cats who take chances. Sometimes I play things I never heard myself." Thelonious Monk
Comparing or evaluating audio tracks requires aural "memory" of what one heard..... Comparing visuals can be done simultaneously... And stills, slow motion, and reverse video can be generated for meticulous comparisons.....
There is no aural equivalent to a still picture......... And slowing down or reversing the playback does not work in the audio realm like it does with the visual part of video. Audio can only be evaluated played back at its native speed.
I knew an audio designer (who has since passed) who was into mostly light popular music like Pink Martini and Herb Alpert, as well as obscure singers like Michel Jonasz..... He also liked Frank Sinatra and Diana Krall..... Most pop he liked was from the 1950s and 1960s.....
Well he had a bout with pneumonia, and was hospitalized for several days..... My friend was worried at the time that he might not survive the pneumonia. But he fully recovered.
After the episode, his tastes in music totally changed..... He got into Rihanna, Katy Perry, Adele, and Fey..... (He got offended when I told him their music was Auto-Tuned.) And referred to what he once liked (and what I liked) as "old people music"..... He was in his 70s at the time.... He also took a sudden interest in traveling to Disneyland and Universal Studios..... He put a Mickey Mouse clock in the dining room of his house, and served dinner (did this every Sunday) with "Disney" themed plates/dishes and flatware....
Prior to the pneumonia episode, he showed no interest whatsoever in recent pop music or Disney..... He ultimately moved to Orlando, Florida, which had, you guessed it..... Walt Disney World....... (We suspected he also moved there because of the Cleveland Clinic, to treat his health situation.) He passed away about a year later.
I've discussed this total change of interests with several people, we suspected that he may have had a mild stroke..... It didn't have much impact on his audio designs, there was otherwise no marked change to his personality...... Although his last tweak suggestion was a turntable mat made of "bubble wrap", which I didn't think would fly......
Equalizers can be used to boost frequency bands that are diminished from hearing loss to where hearing aids may not be needed while listening to a stereo system.
Your assertion that equalizers are not valid because "frequency levels are not the same throughout the room, so adjustments for one spot may not be good elsewhere" is somewhat disingenuous in that it implies that your hearing aids are able to correct for spatial anomalies in room acoustics. Even sophisticated DSP room correction cannot simultaneously correct the frequency response for an entire acoustic space. But given a typical audiophile's listening environment and seating arrangement, an equalizer can help bring back some of the sound that has become muted from hearing loss.
As for when other people are also listening, it's a simple matter to put in your hearing aids and bypass the equalization with the flick of a switch.
Don't be too quick to dismiss equalizers. They aren't a panacea for correcting hearing loss while listening to a stereo system but they can provide a quality listening experience. Hearing aids may be preferable in many cases but they aren't the only solution.
Regards,
Tom
At 92 with hearing aids (Widex Brand) in both ears I disagree strongly with everything but #2 and #6. ESPECIALLY with #4. If that were even remotely true I sure wouldn't be listening to $450 reel-to-reel tapes from Acoustic Sounds.
Dave, I'm not clear about your replies.
Are you disagreeing that those are misconceptions?
I've worn hearing aids for 20 years and my experiences were the basis for my statements. Initially I was very disappointed in music with my aids, both live and recorded. But fine tuning with a good audiologist restored natural tonality and my listening enjoyment. In fact more than once members of the audio club I belonged to commented that my evaluations of some component under audition was spot on. So I can appreciate your enjoyment of high quality sources such as R2R tapes.
"The only cats worth anything are the cats who take chances. Sometimes I play things I never heard myself." Thelonious Monk
Missed your "Misconceptions." You are right, I was wrong. Uber-geeezer age does not necessarily bring clarity of thought.
Hi, Dan,
Good that you're enjoying music on your stereo again.
Hearing aids are one remedy, and as Story and Rod M mentioned, the other solution can be an equalizer to bring out the frequencies that are diminished from hearing loss. An equalizer has been my remedy of the past few years. In particular, the new Schiit Lokius six-band tone control is working really well for me. Certainly system and room dependent, but I think equalizers are an overlooked solution to this common problem.
Regards,
Tom
Were you in the service? I know a lot of vets that were in artillery or manning the 50 cals.
My pal and killer tech swears by equalizers. Every system should have one. He must have a half dozen or more. He claims he can't hear much above 8K, but the system sure sounds fantastic.
-Rod
Hearing is very personal. But a thump you can feel is universal.
Long observed that Many Geezers (like me) have SERIOUS hearing issues and their continued ..imo delusional /in denial?.. attempts to achieve the Ultimate Audio setup always seemed as Curious.
We ALL age out then Die.. accept the reality.
If properly programmed an aid restores the HF rolloff you experience. Of coursee, a flat frequency response may be perceived as bright
...just so you know.....hearing aids don't enhance the sound ...they close it ion and make it artificial. Much better without.
Back in 1994 my cancer treatment protocol included cisplatin to treat testicular cancer . Thank God 27 years later I'm still here and ready to retire in June 2022. I had some nerve damage (neuropathy) and hearing loss. I was in denial for more than 25 years about my hearing loss, I assumed just hearing at higher db's will be ok, man was I wrong.
My hearing aids (Signia, basic model $2200 a pair) really opened a new world sonically speaking for me. I had no idea all the frequencies I was missing, especially high frequencies.
Yes, the hearing aids make some music sound tinny and artificial (classical music specially violins) but for jazz is just amazing. Only a few classical recording really sound bad. Hearing aids provides a wonderful solution not perfect or 100% better but very much a satisfactory experience.
My audiologist doctor told me you have no idea how many musicians wear hearing aids, string players in particular.
I'm a happy camper with my hearing aids and I'm done with buying more stereo equipment.
Blessings to all and stay safe.
Dan
I am really happy you found an answer. I am/was a pro violinist and find my happiness with Beethoven, Bruckner, Mozart, etc. As you say in your post, classical music doesn't work well with hearing aids. I agree. My hearing loss, though not great, is a personal tragedy...though not life threatening, it certainly grays out a large part of me.
That's one of the most stupid things I've read here, Sgreen, and I've seen some doozies.
I've heard some tinny aids (my wife has a pair), so you do have to experiment and be prepared to work with your audiologist.The "Music" setting on my Widex Evoke aids was the answer for me. Yeah, they're expensive. So is my music system. Duh.
I tells it like I hears it. No aids for me while listening to high end stereo. Yes if I'm in a restaurant with friends and want to hear what they are saying. Also, remove glasses when listening to stereo...
and maybe use your stereo with a Lokius EQ from those Schitt guys to make it sound good to your ears. Just twist a knob or 2 to happiness.
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