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In Reply to: RE: Digital recorder question posted by Goober58 on May 17, 2025 at 16:57:15
The "problem" is related to the input sensitivity of your phono stage relative to your phono cartridge/SUT output (whatever your configuration) and the level of the signal being fed from the phono pre to your DA-3000.
However, you shouldn't worry about the resolution of the signal being encoded - the ADC of the DA-3000 is actually sampling the analogue signal in DSD and then decimating that digitized signal to PCM in whatever format you have selected if you select PCM rather than DSD as the data output format. Although the dynamic range of even 16 bit will still exceed the vinyl noise floor I would suggest sticking to 24 bit PCM as the recording format and then dithering to 16 bit later if you want RB versions to burn on a CD-R rather than coding directly in 16 bit as you would need to add dither later on the post-processing phase....although these days why not just stream or playback via PC in the full high resolution format from your storage to the DAC?
The analogue stage of the DA-3000 is not bad, but is easily bettered by alternatives. I have the DA-3000 (although it has now failed) and many years ago still preferred using my Benchmark ADC1USB as the ADC and feeding the digital output to the DA-3000 which functioned purely as a storage device to enable me to record at higher than 24/96 (the limit via USB from the Benchmark) to my PC. The sound was a bit shut-in and slightly coloured compared to the Benchmark which was very transparent by comparison.
Nowadays I have an RME ADI-2ProFS as my ADC although I could happily live with my Korg DS-DAC-10R which elimintes the need for a phono stage altogether as you connect the turntable directly and the EQ is done digitally (as well as offering multiple historical curves including Columbia and Decca). The Korg has a huge input overload margin (>40dB) and can record in 32 bit float which obviates the need to worry about setting level as I can fully correct in post-processing.
Sound quality wise, removing the phono stage from the equation gives pinpoint soundstaging and wide detailed images - I can't go back to using a phono stage now although the Korg can record at line level direct from you phono stage if you prefer. The Korg uses the same ADC chip as the DA-3000 just in a much better package that can be had from eBay for less than USD300 direct from Japan often with free shipping. Sound quality is very good IMO and very close to my other ADCs (Benchmark, RME) although they are limited by the phono stage.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Follow Ups:
NOTE : I tried posting prior to a deletion (for editing?) and I read it again and didn't catch what if anything changed.I have a the Tascam CD-RW900SX recorder and have been using it for years. I'm looking to move up to a 24 recorder. I'm trying to improve the quality my digital music library and will record records previously recorded when I spin the vinyl on a new 24 recording system. And all new LPs will be recorded on the 24 bit system.
I called RME today to talk about the ADI-2 FS which seems to do everything I want but it doesn't come with USB connectivity like the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition. The Black Edition comes with a great headphone amp and a DAC that looks like it's worth using as my system DAC. Talked about warranty and repairs and was satisfied with the answers. At the top of my short list.
This Korg DS-DAC-10R is very interesting. I might like the idea of taking the phono section out of the loop. But I don't know because my vinyl front end is IMO a product of a synergetic combination of components. But like you said I can put the phono pre in before the Korg if I want. The question then becomes can I put the phono section on the line out? Not sure how this device works but it seems like the digital data is transmitted via the internet to software on the PC. If so how transparent is the Korg (in regard to the cartridge output on the line out)? If so it would make me wonder if the digital I create would sound better with a different cart. But if I thought so I could just put the phono pre in front of Korg.
Edits: 05/22/25
Sorry about that - I had used the "less than" symbol when I quoted the price for the Korg but forgot that it was a magic character that meant the text afterwards was lost! It took me a few goes to realize where the problem was.....
Think of the Korg as basically a computer controlled phono stage with a built-in headphone amp (WinPC or Mac not Linux). The line out will function as your phono pre (EQ or flat output) going straight into your analogue Pre or Integrated amp. The output is line level so you can't feed a flat signal into your analogue phono pre without attenuating the signal again. If you want the flavour of your analogue phono pre, then just use the line-in of the Korg. However, I personally think it sounds better with digital EQ - it is basically "perfect" EQ with perfect channel balance since EQ errors due to the topology of the circuit and/or component tolerances are eliminated. Also multiple signal path components have been eliminated so I think it is the purest route for listening to your records with your chosen cartridge. The Phono Load is 50k but you can always use T-dongles with loading resistors and capacitors in parallel with the cartridge output connector. MCs require a SUT of course.
You need to have your laptop or PC connected to it all the time to function - I only use the headphone amp to monitor recordings and it makes an ideal companion for an office or bedroom setup where you don't want clutter.
The way it works (for phono or line in) is that the ADC feeds the data to the PC that then processes the data (applies EQ or record flat) and sends it back to the Korg to the internal DAC to convert to analogue which is fed to the Line Out and to the headphone amp. Up to 2496 it doesn't require a powerful machine to run - I happily use it with an old Ultrabook from 2012 (2nd generation low power i3!). More powerful hardware is needed though if you want to go up to fs=384kHz or DSD512.
Given the relatively modest price of (at the moment as low as USD226 from Japan) I think it is worth the asking price for a much more versatile device that gives you alternative curves for vintage records if you have any that need Decca, Columbia and NAB etc in addition to using with your existing phono pre. I actually use it most of the time now.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
So the Korg saves a copy of it's translation on the PC from which I can create a digital LP that I can playback via my file server?
This sounds to good to be true. How much is the software required to do this? Are you using the DAC on the RME when playing the digital file?
Yup...to both your questions. The Korg really doesn't disgrace itself as an ADC (in my opinion) and I could happily live with it if it were the only ADC product I could keep. (BTW, I sent you a PM)As I mentioned, you could record in PCM up to 24 (or 32 bit float) /384 kHz or DSD64/DSD128 (sorry I made a mistake on the DSD spec previously - I was thinking of MoFi and their default). If you record in 32 bit float, you will need to dither down to 24 bit if you play the file via normal media servers or you could play back via Audiogate.
The software comes free - it is also a media player and simple wave editor too - have a look at the link.
Anyone can download the link and get limited functionality, but full functionality only comes free with the Korg product you purchase (DS-DAC-10R and other models).
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Edits: 05/22/25
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