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We were told our ethernet cable was not current, and the network in the the house is now WiFi. The problems with internet dropout did disappear. I want to pull new ethernet cable using the old cable to drag the new cable through the attic. What cable should I buy?
db
Follow Ups:
"We were told our ethernet cable was not current, and the network in the the house is now WiFi. The problems with internet dropout did disappear. I want to pull new ethernet cable using the old cable to drag the new cable through the attic. What cable should I buy?"
Hi,
Reading this long thread... and have to ask? Who told you your Ethernet was not current, and what are you actually running? Wire, switches, hubs, how many connections etc. How big is your network? Did they actually look at your network?
Sorry to tell you but whoever told you this was just probably FOS and had no idea what they are talking about, or your house is the size of Trump Tower.
Even old CAT 5 will run fine if all the connections are ok and there is no interference or other issues. One bad line,connection or other problem, like running a line over a florescent light etc, can screw up the entire network.
For you main whole house network please don't spent $$$ on expensive cable for in wall installations. If you REALLY want to pull new cable, pull unshielded plenum Cat 6 at most, you do not need anything else. For patch cables you can play with some better ones for your audio stuff and see if you can hear any difference. I use Cat 7 directly wired between my NAS and music server. I also use a filter and common mode choke.
Before you do anything though, properly trouble shoot what you have currently.
regards
Bob
Couldn't agree more Bob. All this jumping in with the latest technology offering when there is probably no real problem. I have basic Cat5e and this works fine.
When I had an extension that contains the man cave including music server I laid and terminated to wall sockets Cat6 with a 1Gb Netgear switch. Much more difficult to terminate than 5e. Not really necessary, but as I was laying infrastructure I thought I would future proof.
All this discussion is probably over a contractors sweeping statement without really looking, but wanting to up the job value.
I also use a filter and common mode choke.
Don't let freddie know. He told me once that chokes cause signal dropout. ;-)
"He told me once that chokes cause signal dropout."
There is allot of positive info on the Jplay forum about the improvement gained on Ethernet. People also use better power supplies (usually linear) for switches, routers etc with positive results. I have not tried this yet.
regards
Bob
Just purchased Cat6A STP (Shielded Twist Pair) cables from MonoPrice.
Another data point to consider :-)
Vbr,
Sam
See link below.
Hehe...Ethan W.-approved ;-)
Vbr,
Sam
Thicker gauge, better shielding. meets all current requirements.
Jack
I have a Lite Audio DAC-83 and Lite Audio LT-1 transport, using the CAT5 cable supplied I can use I2S.
Would there be a clear advantage to using a CAT7 patch cord in this application?
Rick.
Alan at pricemart8, that is, who sold me my Lite system. He recommended Cat 6 but I sprang for a certified Cat 6a cable from Blue Jean. Cost me all of $24 delivered (about 2 ft).Don't feel the urge to go back to the stock cable. Seems more explicit.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 06/15/14
I would think so, but, it's easy enough to try and see for yourself.
Jack
+1... Rosewill and other good brands all available on Amazon.
I've had good experiences with amazon.com and Blue Jeans. I may try a 50' CAT6 cable from Blue Jeans. Thanks for the advice.
db
You don't pull patch cords through the walls of your home. You want to use solid core cabling, purchased on a spool, that will be terminated at the wall using a modular jack and at your wiring closet in some type of patch panel. Patch cords are used to connect computers and other devices to wall jacks and to run between a patch panel and a switch or router in your wiring closet.
Patch cords typically use stranded conductors for their flexibility. You don't want to pull stranded cabling because you break the individual strands (I think there may be a slight performance penalty as well). Patch cords _can_ be made from solid core cabling, but they're stiff and not very user friendly.
The solid core cabling that you pull through the walls can't be "certified" until it's installed, and then you would test the entire run, including jacks, between the wall and patch panel. The Belden 1538A 1000' reels that Blue Jeans sell at the link are only Cat-5e, so if you want to go with Cat-6 or Cat-7, you'll need to look elsewhere. And if you pull something like Cat-7, make sure you terminate it using Cat-7 jacks and a Cat-7 patch panel. And if you go to all that trouble and expense, you should probably have a professional company certify each of the runs in your home.
I've never worked with Cat-7, but I'm not sure you want to deal with the shielding. Cat-6A, if installed properly, is supposedly capable of 10 gigabit performance. That should be more than enough to get you by.
Mac, your post makes it clear to me that I don't know enough about ethernet to install it. Whatever the cable now installed, it terminates at an outlet on the wall. I think the cables I saw at the Blue Jeans are designed to go from that outlet to the device. IIRC, the ethernet cable from the wall went to the iMac and then daisy chained from the iMac to the Oppo BDP-105. It's a bit confusing, because there's also DirecTV cable running from an outlet close to where the ethernet enters the room.
Decades ago, I vaguely recall discussion of ethernet when SRI was an early site on the ARPANET, but the techs set that up and I only enjoyed the at-the-time amazing connection.
db
Mac, your post makes it clear to me that I don't know enough about ethernet to install it.
Plug one end into router/switch and other into device. Not rocket science.
"Plug one end into router/switch and other into device. Not rocket science." would be true were I willing to have cable running along the floor between where the service enters the house, two rooms and a hall away from my iMac, but I'm not. The cable needs to go inside a wall up to the attic, across the attic, and inside a wall down to the outlet. Once its installed, then the trite not rocket science statement would be valid.
Tony, replacing the old ethernet with WiFi produced an instant cure, so I don't know if there was some other intermittent problem with the existing cable, but in any case we''ll probably pull 6C (IIRC) while we're at it. The IP talked of a bandwidth problem, and I didn't challenge the assertion.
db
Not rocket science." would be true were I willing to have cable running along the floor between...
I see two challenges here. The first is that of connections. If you recall, my post was in response to this comment:
I don't know enough about ethernet to install it.
You really don't need to buy bulk cable and have it custom terminated. Passing any kind of cable through floors and walls is a separate question that shouldn't be terribly difficult either. If you read my post titled "I went the cheap route", I too, had to run the completed cord up a built in bookcase, drill a hole in the ceiling and the floor of the attic above. It then passed across two walls of the attic and into the listening room. Custom terminations not required.
You would have to run tests to see why the wired network didn't work. For example, was there any connectivity at all? Did the link lights illuminate when you plugged in the wire? What color (speed) did they show the connection operating at? Did you try ping tests to see lost packets? Did you look at Ethernet counts? All of these would help you diagnose the problem, assuming that you understood enough to know what I am talking about. Also, you could try different equipment on opposite ends of the cable. (If you don't understand what I am talking about here, then I suggest finding a friend who does and asking him to help you.)
It is certainly possible that your old wiring was not proper Ethernet cable, i.e. ordinary telephone cable. It's also possible that the equipment was somehow defective. That could be verified by moving the equipment into the same room and trying different cables. I have a lot of old hubs stored in drawers and old cables. I keep these to swap about in case I ever have a problem that is difficult to diagnose. But I really haven't, except with my Raspberry Pi where sometimes the RJ45 connector doesn't seat firmly and this confused me a few times until I learned to check it carefully.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Tony, unfortunately the problem was the most difficult kind to diagnose, intermittent. The internet link worked fine much of the time, and the lights showed what the IP said they should, but on occasion, and those occasions became ever more frequent, I had no service. Since installation of WiFi, I have experienced no problems and the iMac is very responsive. Netflix takes a few minutes to initialize on the Oppo 105, but once up navigating its interface and downloading a selection is quick. I have a Mac Mini connected to the Oppo via asynchronous USB, but I had trouble downloading from HD Tracks and have let it slip. I also have Pure Music and Audirvana on the iMac. I don't know how important ethernet is for that application whenever I get off my ass and get it running.
db
I think Tony is on the right track. Hard wired Ethernet is generally a lot faster and more reliable than Wifi.
Netflix, AppleTV, and various high bandwidth streaming services have always been faster to load and more reliable for me via basic CAT5 Ethernet vs wifi.
Good luck!
I went into the attic with our carpenter/contractor yesterday and concluded that the approach E-Stat used would work for me. I've had good experiences ordering from Blue Jeans, so I think I'll order a CAT6A patch cable of sufficient length to go from the router where service enters the house up through the attic and down to the iMac. The path will be that of the existing ethernet cable, and if we can do so without damaging the new cable, we may use the existing cable to pull the new cable. Another patch cable can run from the iMac to the Oppo, just as it did with the previous ethernet.
Thanks for all your help, especially E-Stat.
db
That approach simplified the process for me, although it did require drilling slightly larger holes than the cable itself would require. The only "exposed" run was along the floor behind the speakers in the listening room.
As for "pulling" them, my cable was passed through open spaces where there was no tugging of the cable that might compromise it.
What I meant by pull was use the existing cable to guide the path of the new cable. If we meet resistance, we will stop pulling. Drilling half-inch or even inch holes to accommodate a connector is not a cosmetic problem in my application. It's beginning to seem within my minimal knowledge of ethernet installation.
db
that's what I did!
Other posters seem to think there is some "stress" on the cable involved with this process. It was not in my situation.
Someone may have already mentioned it but the potential problem with 'pulling' a patch cable is that many are made with stranded wire that might easily break.... but this may still work for you depending on length and how hard it is to pull.
The stiffer solid conductor ethernet cables are less prone to breaking conductors when pulled.
If you get just one cable from your router into the desired room, and don't want to pull another cable, you can buy a $50 switch and have multiple ports available for you via that one pulled cable.
"Someone may have already mentioned it but the potential problem with 'pulling' a patch cable is that many are made with stranded wire that might easily break...."
Pulling stranded cable will not be a problem. He has access to where he is running the wire. Stranded is actually more flexible that is why it is better for (patch cables)external wiring . Try pulling on a patch cable with you hands and see if you can break it.
In theory sold core should ultimately be better performance wise. But I don't think we would even tell. Tony can probably explain why. :)
"In theory sold core should ultimately be better performance wise. But I don't think we would even tell. Tony can probably explain why. :)"
No I couldn't. I never did figure out all the subtitles of electricity and magnetism. At the time I should be have studying this stuff I was interested in other things. I would put it this way: I confused E&M with S&M. :-)
My advice in new construction would be to pull conduit. That's the only system that would seem to be future proof. Decades ago I drilled some holes in a baseboard and flooring and dropped some Monster Cable. This allowed me to put the speakers on one floor and all of my equipment on another floor. This was great from an sonic perspective as well as an aerobic perspective. No more vibration problems when the equipment as coupled to a separate concrete slab. Lots of exercise running up and down the stairs to adjust volume, flip LPs, etc. After some years I got tired of running up and down the stairs.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I should have prefaced my OP with my intended use of ethernet to connect with my iMac and an Oppo BDP-105 that streams content. I previously used ethernet, but began experiencing periods when I couldn't connect to the internet. The cable company that serves as the IP told me the existing cable was inadequate and installed WiFi -- they don't install ethernet cable in the home. That cured the problem I was experiencing and Safari on my iMac seems very responsive. I'm not sure how much ethernet would speed up streaming compared to using the WiFi network. Perhaps I should leave well-enough alone.
db
I can not imagine any wired Ethernet cabling offering worse performance than wireless, unless there are broken wires or loose connectors. The error rate on wired Ethernet cables in typical home situations are likely to be zero over the entire life of the installation. The Ethernet signalling is engineered to run 100 meters or longer and this has set the standards for cabling. Wireless on the other hand, has an error rate that can be 1 per cent or even higher, due to interference, weak signals, etc.. Running simple Ping tests will easily illustrate this point and show the delays and lost packets on wireless connections vs. wired.
If your network is working poorly it is likely to be some kind of overload or software problem, not a cabling problem. At least that has been my experience. (My last problem was a peer-to-peer application that was saturating my upstream DSL link, which problem was solved by configuring QoS to throttle this application to a fraction of the available bandwidth.)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
What type of cabling is currently installed? Find an exposed section and read the markings on the casing. If it's Cat-5 then it should be perfectly capable of 100 Mbps and will support just about any kind of music or movie streaming that you'll want to do. It may even support 1000 Mbps (gigabit Ethernet).
with my 75' run of CAT6e "patch cords". I just made the three holes large enough to accommodate the plugs since only one is in sight. My music server is located downstairs in the office. I ran the line through the built in bookshelves up through the ceiling and floor of the attic. It then runs across the attic walls and into the back wall of the listening room upstairs. I couldn't easily access the wall space near the gear since it is located under a tight dormer.
Certified Data cables. Worth it.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Cat 5E or Cat 6
The Well Tempered Computer
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