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In Reply to: RE: Relentless posted by mark.korda@myfairpoint.net on August 07, 2024 at 13:13:28
The funny thing is, most of these elegant amplifiers appear to be made like an old Crown amp (the old ones are bullet proof), that is it could put out what ever it's rating was 24/7/365.
They might be able to put out say 1/2dB more at significant distortion but there was a hard limit to how much Voltage the output stage can swing...set by the power supply voltage.
There is no "peak" that is significantly above the continuous.
Class D, obviously it's very different but it is a breakthrough in another way, most of them are designed around music as a signal. not a sine wave 24/7/365.
An analog rms volt meter like a Simpson 260, or a sound level meter reads the rms or average value integrated over some short time.
So what does music actually look like?
Well dynamically you have a signal that constantly changes, nothing like a sine wave.
The most compressed FM music would usually have a peak value that is about 10 times the average value that one would read with the meters I mentioned. To be clear, these peaks are short, very short and are best seen looking at the microphone or amp voltage on a storage oscilloscope or other to capture the peaks and read the voltage.
Some sound level meters have slow, fast and peak hold as these peaks go to the loudspeaker too.
Good recordings usually have a peak to average ratio of 20 to 30 dB, the short peaks can be 100 to 1000 times larger than the average level.
The weird thing is, "clipping is obvious" and yes it is....BUT only if it lasts long enough and this is how one can have a low power amp that easily handles the average level but is also clipping instantaneous peaks..
You can't hear that...until you A / B with something that isn't clipped, then the un clipped sounds the same except it's more dynamic.
Here is where many class D amps stand out. they are not designed to put out a sine wave 24/7 at rated power, in fact, most can only deliver rated power for some shortish period of time.
What some can also do is put out peaks that much larger than the continuous power rating and are built around the demands of music.
They are not all the same, i am only familiar with the ICE power blocks and a few others.
Tom
Follow Ups:
Class D amps are too good already and getting better and you don't need dedicated circuits to power them. If you doubt me, check out the PS Audio m700 and m1200 amps. They're cheap and sound great.
Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone
There is some logic here but you obviously don't understand other audiophiles may think different than you. We once expected CDs to rule and they are gone but records are resurging, admittedly a niche but a significant niche.
From Bones to Kirk, Jim, Liniear is dead
Hi,
Although the CD is sort of "gone," it's not really "gone" in the sense that what happened is that streaming took over, so instead of a disc holding 16/44.1 music files, some storage somewhere in the world does and that's now transfer wirelessly and/or wired through a DAC. So it's still here -- digital audio is -- but in a different way.
But I agree with you on the way audiophiles think. Class-D amps are fantastic today, but there plenty of great class-A and class-AB amps that many people will still gravitate to.
Doug Schneider
SoundStage!
on an "indefinite loan" basis.
Took me a while to rip the CD collection but the benefits are enormous. Frequently combine local and Qobuz content in same playlists across multiple systems. :)
While the music server resides on a NAS, the entire library (including larger 24 bit downloads) fits on this used every once in a while in the HT system.
As, I'm sure, do many serious music fans. New (and old) titles are still being made and sold, and players will be made as long as people want to hear their collections. That's just market sense. I, for one, have zero interest in streaming/downloading, and I'll bet I'm not the only one.
Just like with vinyl records, which are now enjoying a resurgence of popularity. That fad will fade, but there will still be lots of folks with nice record collections who want nice turntables.
And probably also the "Pareto 95%."
But, there will always be a few who don't care about price.
Were I to win the Lottery, I'd donate darTZeel's biggest amps to a local art museum. As part of a complete system.
I know a guy who is famous in Ferrari circles as a wheeler-dealer.
A guy who failed to get his advice, fell out of love with his new-to-him used car.
My colleague told him, "Best case, to get out of this car, sales price versus sales price, you are out at least $20,000, and perhaps $50,000."
The rich guy snorted and said, "I spend more than that a year on crap I buy on eBay."
A different world.
john
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