ANK AudioKits Forum

ANK AudioKits support forum

Audio Note Kits Forum

kit 3 difference in bass control depending on amp

4.165.201.149

I own an Audio Note Soro SE integrated amp which is very nice. It has terrific sound and really revealing bass (there is so much information down there!) with my kit 3 (AN E) speakers however the bass is a little 'full' sounding and a tad slow. I have read the kit 3s are voiced with 300B based SET amps and they may tighten up the bass a bit.

Has anyone compared the Soro SE with a 300B based amp in this regard?

I just have the speakers on milk crate type things (10' high) and run Lexus bi wire also AN-VX ICs from my Muse model 9 Sig CD player. The speakers are 3" from the corners of my 13' x 21' living room.

thanks and, as usual, any info is appreciated

Phil

Follow Ups:

BTW I use the 8 OHM post on my Soro SE - PhilJ 04:02:20 03/31/08 (0)
I know this accounts for some of the warmth I experience but the 4 OHM is too thin. What would be the 'normal' hookup? I am guessing somewhere in between the two. Also I think the 8 OHM tap uses less coil on the power supply (or something to that effect - I probably used the wrong terms...)

What post do you guys use 8 or 4?

Phil
RE: kit 3 difference in bass control depending on amp - DRCope 12:25:39 03/23/08 (4)
First things first: your milk crate stands are killing you.You want stands that couple very tightly to the floor (spikes) and firmly to the speakers (BluTack). You want to adjust the spikes so that the speaker will not rock even a millimeter.

Second: Speaker placement has a substantial effect on bass quality as well as quantity. Tuck 'em up tight against the side walls, close to the back wall, (in other words, in the corners.) Toe them in to "cross" about a meter in front of your head. Vary the distance to the rear wall making small changes at a time. When you've got the placement you like best, fill the stand columns with half fine sand (aquarium sand is very good) and very fine lead shot. I suggest doing this late in the game because the E Blu Tacked to a mass loaded stand on spikes is a bear to move, at least alone. (About 100lbs!)

Third: Non-triode amps nearly universally use at least a sprinkling of feedback to make them behave in a linear fashion. The Soro should have tighter control over the woofers than an equal quality (non-feedback SE) 300B amp.

Fourth: The pre-amp, or pre-amp stage has at least as much influence on bass definition and control as the power amp. The transformer-coupled Audio Note pre-amps are great at this.
Keep your ears and your mind open.
- Audio Note AN-swers (Open in New Window)
- Point 4 well taken - ear-mite 06:05:48 03/31/08 (0)
  Hello David,
  
  Earlier this month I had the opportunity to hear a 5-6 year old M6
  in my system (Linn Ikemi, Spendor SP3/1P, Bruce Moore M50 mono's,
  Holfi NB2 SE preamp) and couldn't believe how much more extended
  and articulate the bass response became. It was a real jaw dropper
  as I felt the little Spendors were the weakest link in my system,
  but not any more. Even the Ayre K-1 and V-1 I owned previously
  couldn't make the Spendors sing like the M6 can - go figure.
  This was my first exposure to Audio Note gear and one I'll remember
  for a long time.
  
  How do the current M3 and M6 compare in bass quality?
  
  Ken
- thanks David - PhilJ 22:20:33 03/23/08 (2)
  I will try the stands first. After MUCH experimentation I ended up with the speakers about 3" from the corners and I agree aiming them about 3' in front of me is the best.
  
  If you feel like shooting me a price on stands shipped to Michigan my email is above
  
  Phil
  - RE: thanks David - DRCope 06:45:59 03/24/08 (0)
    Hi Phil,
    
    You're welcome. I'm not a dealer and don't sell AN product. I'm just the answers, copywriter and trade show guy for the home office.
    
    There is no Midwest AN dealer, more's the pity, so contact any of the U.S. dealers and they'll be able to help you.
    Keep your ears and your mind open.
    - U.S. Audio Note dealers (Open in New Window)
  - oops email below - PhilJ 22:21:35 03/23/08 (0)
    pjolet@msn.com
RE: kit 3 difference in bass control depending on amp - Frank E 15:24:29 03/22/08 (11)
I have compared the Soro SE, Oto SE, and Kit1(300B SE) using my AN-J/Spe.

With Soro SE and AN-J's, the bass was very 'full' sounding and a tad slow. With the Kit1 and AN-J's, the bass is very tight, but not so imformative. Your Kit3 speakers would probably not be a lot different to the AN-J's in that regard. That is one of the trade-offs between 6L6's and 300B's; there are others.

Have you tried some tube rolling in the Soro? You may find other 6L6's and 6SL7's that will tighten up the bass, give better HF response, and be more dynamic overall.
- BTW Frank - PhilJ 22:26:30 03/22/08 (0)
  how did the Oto SE stack up against the Soro and Kit1?
- thanks - PhilJ 19:47:52 03/22/08 (9)
  Frank E
  
  I did some rolling and the basic character of the sound stayed the same. The tubes I switched from I can not even see what brand they are they are so old, but I went to RCA metal 6L6's that I got from Andy at Vintage Tube Services. He told me they were the best 6L6 he had. They do not have a glass casing but metal instead - maybe military? The sound opened up quite a bit.
  
  If you have any suggestions about a better tube for me to try I would much appreciate it.
  
  Thanks for the info, I have read the Soro is full sounding before, you are the second to confirm this.
  
  I may try new speaker stands before any other changes.
  
  thanks
  
  Phil
  - Tube Suggestions - R Browne 07:32:58 03/24/08 (8)
    I have an Audio Note M1 pre-amp and P2 SE amp, which is the same combination in separates as the Soro SE, that I have been using since 1995. I use them with a pair of AN/J speakers. I'd start with other's recommendation for proper stands and positioning to help your bass problem.
    
    In the P2 SE I've tried different tubes, both 6L6 type power tubes and 6SL7 driver tubes. The stock Sovtek 5881/6L6WGC are perhaps the most "neutral" tubes with the least amount of bloated bass. Others I've tried are the Philips 5881/6L6WGB, SED SV6L6GC and the new production Tung-Sol 5881. These are all fine tubes but for your situation I'd try the Sovtek's. They are also the least expensive.
    
    The 6SL7 type with the tightest, most solid bass I've tried is a NOS Tung-Sol 6SL7GT black base tall bottle tube with flat gray plates. They show up on ebay from time to time. I found a pair in an old radio/tv repair shop ten years ago. See photo. All of the NOS Tung-Sols sound great. The one I currently use is the Tung-Sol 6SL7GT black base with round plates. Another one that may work for you is the Raytheon VT-229 that goes in a different direction with a lighter, more airy sound. Good luck.
    - Also... - R Browne 09:08:41 03/24/08 (7)
      I do recall seeing test measurements in a British hi-fi magazine years ago on both the AN/E and AN/J speaker. The AN/E had both deeper bass and a higher lever of output. If the remedies suggested in this thread don't work to your satisfaction you may wish to look to different amplification such as the OTO SE. The SORO SE has, I believe, somewhat fuller sounding bass than the OTO SE. You'll lose some power (10 wpc. vs. 18 wpc.) but you would obviously want to try one in your setup to see if it is a viable solution. Perhaps some OTO owners could provide more informed information for you.
      - RE: Also... - RGA 18:42:19 03/24/08 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Also... posted by R Browne on March 24, 2008 at 09:08:41
        
        This is interesting. The Soro is a faster tighter sounding amp while the OTO is richer darker. The Soro is a nice Sherry while the OTO is a nice Port.:-)
        
        The AN J according to Hi-Fi Choice has an easier impedance - not dipping below 5ohms while the AN E dips down to 3.6 ohms. Bob Neil suggests the the OTO is terrific with the AN J - since I have the combo I can say I agree.
        
        The AN E probably notices more of the differences or would show up the lack of drive in the OTO but it should still play real loud. It's gonna come down to taste and perhaps your room. If you have a super dead room the Soro is probably going to be better. If the room is hot the OTO might be better.
        
        Presumably if you have the AN E /HE versions then the OTO would have no trouble.
        
        Frankly I am impressed highly by both so it's a nice problem to have. perhaps the money put to the Soro could be used to turn the speaker to the HE version.
        
        In other words would an E/HE with OTO be better than a Soro with regular E?
        
        Interesting RGA you think the Oto is a bit 'darker" - PhilJ 18:54:02 03/26/08 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Also... posted by RGA on March 24, 2008 at 18:42:19
        
        than the Soro which is the opposite to 2 other views here and I have read before the Soro was warm. Probably a speaker compatability thing but you never know in this hobby until you exhaust every possibility, maybe wire/tubes?
        
        I have considered the Oto SE but got my soro at such a steal and besides I love the OOOMPHHH it offers, I tend to rock a bit, (the walls shudder on occasion) and my Soro has phono too, going to the Oto SE does not make sense to me - I think more of going toward a Meishu first.
        
        BTW Bob Neill of Amherst Audio has mentioned he prefers the Oto SE over the Soro SE which got me thinking of one to begin with...
        
        sorry for the rambling, I am getting a bit geeked about the speaker stands I should have by next week...
        
        RE: Interesting RGA you think the Oto is a bit 'darker" - RGA 09:37:40 03/27/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Interesting RGA you think the Oto is a bit 'darker" posted by PhilJ on March 26, 2008 at 18:54:02
        
        Some people do prefer the OTO to the Soro - I'm using crap wires and my sources may in fact be darker. This is why I'm exploring the turntable from AN above. I want to get a good front end so I am better able to discuss my gear.
        
        I like vinyl better so I figure my money there will net me a higher return.
        
        It's interesting - the Soro has more drive and snap on the bass and because of that the OTO should sound darker in comparison. I've listened to the SORO a lot less, an hour or two? I liked it immensely but the OTO was in the budget - loved it, bought it.
        
        Bob likes the sound of the OTO - the flavour is different. I doubt you can go wrong with any of them really.
        
        RE: Also... - R Browne 21:45:59 03/24/08 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Also... posted by RGA on March 24, 2008 at 18:42:19
        
        Its been many years since I heard an OTO SE and unfortunately I've never heard a side by side comparison between the OTO SE and the SORO SE so I find your observations interesting. I've only heard the OTO SE on a pair of AN/K's but never on the AN/J's.
        
        I think the problem PhilJ is experiencing is probably best solved by having proper stands and tweaking the speaker placement. In my experience a matter of a couple of inches can spell the difference between bloated and tight bass with AN speakers, especially with corner placement which seems to me to be either great when it is right on or not so good when it is a bit off position. What type of interface material between the speaker and stands will also affect the characteristics of bass reproduction.
        
        Isn't hi-fi fun?
        
        thanks everyone for posting - PhilJ 06:03:39 03/25/08 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Also... posted by R Browne on March 24, 2008 at 21:45:59
        
        I have taken great care to properly place my speakers. After moving them many, many times I have settled on 3" from the corners of my 13 x 21 living room on the 10" stands.
        
        I think there is a compromise between getting the tonal balance of the corner placement and resolution of being farther out into the room but I really love these speakers when things gel and I look forward to an improvement soon.
        
        I am in the process of getting some Sound Anchor stands that were made specificaly for the model E. I will report back...
        
        again thanks
        
        Good choice... - R Browne 23:10:28 03/25/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: thanks everyone for posting posted by PhilJ on March 25, 2008 at 06:03:39
        
        ...with the Sound Anchors. I have a pair with my AN/J's. If you have carpeting it is best to have the spikes penetrate it to make direct contact with the floor for the tightest and most solid bass. I'm sure you will hear a positive difference with these stands as you have taken obvious care to find the optimal speaker placement for your room. Enjoy!
        
        RE: Also... - RGA 23:06:15 03/24/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Also... posted by R Browne on March 24, 2008 at 21:45:59
        
        The AN J can suffer bass boom and dead qualities. Audio Note recommends quite a large degree of distance from the corner depending on rooms. Some room can take them so that they are practically touching while other rooms a foot or more from the wall. An inch either way has a pretty significant effect in my room. The thing is it sounds quite nice anywhere which i think might fool some people into thinking they're done with the set-up. It takes quite a bit of time IME to really get them into their "spot."
        
        The Soro seems to be gaining in popularity - my dealer has been waiting since September for them while I saw several OTO's. Some people really like one over the other. I like them both. The OTO is what I could afford and I'm thrilled with it. two years sitting in a box - take it out turn it on - took 1 album for the system to get the treble going and now it's creating great tunes.
        
        I personally think the OTO should be revered as a modern classic. It isn't as resolving and transparent as their upper amps but it is highly engaging and just downright easy to listen to all the time. And that isn't to say it isn't transparent or resolving it is.
        
        I would use the word "classy" sounding. I get the impression the Soro is a bit more Indiana Jones while the Oto is more James Bond - Women want to date them and guys want to be them.
        
        How many more analogies can I come up with? LOL.
I mean 10" high speaker stands - PhilJ 13:39:06 03/22/08 (0)
thanks

Post a Followup:

FAQ

Post a Message!

Forgot Password?

Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
	Remember my Moniker & Password (What's this?) Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:

Message:	(Posts are subject to Content Rules)

Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:	Automagically notify you when someone responds.

To view your new posting or follow-up, click on the RELOAD or REFRESH button on your browser.

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

VH Audio