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M3 at Low listening volumes

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I have been told by 2 different dealers that it is normal for my factory M3 Line to come up on one channel before the other. Turning up the volume from full off the left channel comes up well before the right. Its a significant difference that evens out once the right channel comes up.
Unfortunatly it does interfere with trying to listen at low levels.
Right now its on at a comfortable conversational background level and only the left channel is playing.

Any thoughts on what is causing this and any suggestions on a fix?

Thank you.

Follow Ups:

RE: M3 at Low listening volumes - Response34 20:45:21 01/22/08 (0)
I did not read all the responses so my apologies if this has been mentioned already. The problem with most stereo volume pots is that they are not balanced very well. Even some of the better pots such as the Alps Blue will have this imbalance at low levels. I throw away 3 out of 10 pots I buy due to this imbalance.

Another option would be to replace the 100K pot with a 50k pot. This will give you more usuable range from the volume control and also possibly allow the pot to get past it's low level imbalance before the music comes up. With the Audio Note preamps, they come on strong to begin with so this would help kill two birds with one stone.
Bill
"Build your system for yourself not the critics"
RE: M3 at Low listening volumes - richardcooper2k 11:12:57 11/20/07 (0)
you could try shunting the volume pot. see

http://www.wduk.worldomain.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198

this is primarily to reduce the degenerative effect of the volume pot but it also reduces sensitivity. so you will have to turn your volume control a bit further on to get the same volume and this may be enough for the second side to 'kick in'

other than that you could try a different volume pot, or attenuating the signal with a loss pad after the pre amp, or use two separate volume controls for left and right.
I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? - RGA 07:01:35 11/19/07 (7)
This is not to knock AN but it seems apparent on most amps that the jumps from very quiet to too damn loud sets in early. Most volume knobs you get to 1'o'clock and it would fry loudspeakers so the rest of the rotation is a waste of time.

I have to say that I am very happy with my OTO in this regard. But I have read that the M1 had too much gain on the Zero system. Speakers should come on at the same volume not one at a time. If a Marantz receiver at $299.00 can do it then expensive amplifiers should do it and do it better.
- RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? - flickkit 14:37:54 11/22/07 (6)
  Good point RGA...
  But then again you could be bordering on heresy. High End audio equipment is like a high end car. you really dont expect it to drive very well around town but damn it hauls ass and looks cool. Puleezzzeee it is so crass to compare my Ferrari to a Camry...
  (end sarcasm)
  
  It seems that to question why some simple function does not work as it should is akin to telling the emperor he is naked.
  
  I really enjoy listening to my AN gear. When all is right it is amazing. The volume issue is annoying. I beleive all this equipment we discuss on AA should at the very least function correctly in simple respects. The discusions should be about excellence and how to acheive it.
  
  With the problems of tube gear, yes there are problems, it had better do something extremly well. We all know what it does well. It excels in the reproduction of music. And that after all is whats its all about.
  
  Anyway I figure as long as I'm aware that it is BS to think it is ok not to funtion because its expensive, then I have not completly lost it.
  
  By the way, the Audio Note Oto is one of the finest pieces of audio equipment available.
  
  Happy Thanksgiving :)
  - RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? - RGA 15:41:08 11/22/07 (5)
    Then again it could also be the loudspeaker - if the speakers are not matched to each other closely then one may in fact be more sensitive (louder) and that is why you get the one speaker first then the other one.
    
    Don't know but it seems to be the case with my Wharfedales. You could try another amp to make sure.
    
    I agree with your points.
    - RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? - flickkit 21:36:09 11/22/07 (4)
      Thanks RGA
      After reading your sugestion I did a little more investigation. Switching the inputs from my CD3.1x the problem remains the same. If I switch the pre-amp outputs the right speaker will come up first. The left output being the first to come up. This indicates the inbalance is in the preamp output.
      The problem is not an issue with my DVD player as I need to turn the volume up more for a eqivalent volume as to the CD player. I understand the output of the CD3.1x is relatively high. My speakers are AN-Es so being a high efficiency design they dont need much power. My Amps are the older high gain versions. All of these characteristics exagerate my problem as I am using very little volume control to get high volume levels.
      lol My equipment is too efficient!
      
      I like the idea of the stepped control. Im going to have to check dimensions and see if it all will work out.
      
      My apologies if this got off topic for the kit forum. I figured if anyone would know a solution it would be the people in here.
      
      Thanks again.
      
      ps If anyone can suggest the proper ohm rating for an attenuator Id be appreciative.
      - RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? - richardcooper2k 01:50:28 11/23/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? posted by flickkit on November 22, 2007 at 21:36:09
        
        if you want to put an attenuator on the input from your cd player to then you need to put one resistor in series with the signal and another from the signal wire to earth wire. this is so the impedance between signal and earth stays the same. can't remember how to calculate the values without doing some research - you could find it on the net or in a book or prehaps somebody who does remember could enlighten us !
      - RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? - Bambadoo 23:27:47 11/22/07 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? posted by flickkit on November 22, 2007 at 21:36:09
        
        You should check the TKD stepped. Used in the AN M10 (it seems)
        http://www.tkd-corp.com/02_products/p_04variable_a.html
        
        The one you need is
        P65CS 100KΩ
        
        It is however quite expensive.
        
        RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? - flickkit 12:14:31 11/25/07 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? posted by Bambadoo on November 22, 2007 at 23:27:47
        
        Thank you for the info. i have an email in looking for a source.
        Came across this productwhile searching for attenuators.(see link)
        http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/inline_attenuators.html
        I think I will give them a try.
        This is probably what richard was talking of??
        Seems this is a very common problem.
        Attenuator (Open in New Window)
        
        Edits: 11/25/07
        
        RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? - richardcooper2k 03:13:56 11/26/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I don't know why it is so hard to get volume knobs right? posted by flickkit on November 25, 2007 at 12:14:31
        
        yes, they would do the job. easier than working out the resistor values for yourself. they will just contain one resistor in series with the signal and one from signal to earth. resistor to earth is usually conected after the series one.
        one way to work out the resistor values yourself would be to wire in a (volume) pot where you want to attenuate the signal and have a play until until you're getting the amount of attenuation you want. then measure the resistances the pot is giving at that setting and put in resistors of the same value. this way you could put in whatever flavour resistors you want e.g. tants, etc
        
        see this for more info on loss pads (fixed attenuators ), includes how to calculate resistor values and some photos :
        
        http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/
RE: M3 at Low listening volumes - Bambadoo 13:54:42 11/18/07 (6)
The volume pot is the problem. Maybe a stepped attenuator is a solution.
- RE: M3 at Low listening volumes - RhythMick 13:14:25 12/02/07 (0)
  As part of my thorough reinvention of my M3, I replaced my volume pot with an AN tantalum-loaded stepped attenuator, at the same time getting rid of the tape/source switch and the balance control (which is on a PCB with the volume pot). I also attenuated the level so that my highest listening level is at "full".
  
  There was an immediate improvement in sound as well as an evening out of the volumes from each channel but it improved immensely over the next month or so. Each tantalum pair has to run in, so find quiet times to run the louder levels in.
- RE: M3 at Low listening volumes - flickkit 18:35:38 11/18/07 (4)
  Thanks for the response.
  I looked at Parts Conexxion and they list DACT attenuators in a variety of flavors. I have no idea which one I would need to order. If I were to measure the stock componant at full attenuation would this give me the required resistance value?
  What is the difference between stereo and balanced stereo?
  Thanks
  - RE: M3 at Low listening volumes - flickkit 19:15:05 11/18/07 (3)
    Sorry, Forgot to mention that the Audio Note site listed Parts Connexion as a source for AN parts but I did not see the the attenuators on there site,
    My only hesistation on the stepped is the operational aspects of degree of change per click. I only use the first 1/4 to 1/3 available volume control. On a 24 step attenuator from off to full used volume it would only have 6 to 8 steps. Seems like this would be a fairly course adjustment.
    I suspect that a standard rotary resistor control is not truely linear and also operates in steps. You just dont feel them?
    The determining factor would be what resistance increments the respective controls had.
    Any thoughts on or experience with this?
    - RE: M3 at Low listening volumes - RhythMick 13:33:04 12/02/07 (0)
      Use the stepped, but use a pair of 2W tantalum resistors in series to attentuate the overall signal level. This means that you use more of the control and it sounds a lot better.
    - Check out a Goldpoint .. - ABliss 10:24:09 11/21/07 (0)
      Mini-v. I have two monos on my M3 kit, and love them. You can get a stereo one or monos if you want to do L&R volume. The adjustments are very smooth with a solid feel. I usually use them in the 10-2oclock area depending on the source input.
      The 24 step gives you great fine tuning ability, no more useless volume pot range after 9oclock.
      
      AB.
    - RE: M3 at Low listening volumes - Vincin 07:01:35 11/19/07 (0)
      Hi, I have the DACT 100K in my kit1 amp, I only use the first 40% of the volume control, its quite ok.
      
      You can get the AN 24 step attenuator from Hifi Collection in the UK.
      
      Regards,
      V

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