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In Reply to: RE: "giant killing" class D amps? posted by cawson@onetel.com on December 29, 2017 at 16:54:18
nope... i'll have to disagree with you there! i was quite happy with the sound quality out of my ORIGINAL $15 sonic impact amp even if it lacked oomph on 85dB missions. it was a very detailed and easygoing sound, and what got me into class D. i traded my onkyo in for a panasonic SA-XR after that, and have gravitated towards class D ever since.i don't for a second buy the "you get what you pay for" argument regarding audio either. i'd been visiting 4 different shops on the same block back in the 80s, and wanted to buy a yamaha receiver (cheaper than "the best"... harmon kardon... and way more open on top than overrated NAD... had one a few years back... DESPISED it and upgraded to onkyo) back then, but was never really wowed by ANY speakers i heard, though up to mega $$$ klipsch and assorted towers, and was actually blown away by a former friend's $100 infinitys on a denon with a B&O table!
it was the first time i'd heard LACK of the annoying "giant marshmallow bass" i didn't yet know was one of the things tat made speakers SOUND LIKE SPEAKERS, lack of cabinet resonance, lightning fast REAL (quality over quantity) bass and the first time i heard REAL imaging! it was then and there i realized all of the $1,000+ towers were ripoffs because those CHEAP little minis stomped then in EVERY WAY except bass extension... but that's what subs are for.
class D is INHERENTLY a superior sounding tech as far as i'm concerned as i hate ANY of the tubes & ports type thickening of sound so many others love, but yeah... $50 chinese amps aren't N cores. that's a given.
ugh! i can never find a pic of those infinity minis, back when they were still a LEGIT high end (read: acoustic suspension) company that were what instantly turned me into an audiophile
i'm coming a "big $$$ gear is a ripoff" perspective because of that, & my experience with $15 sonic impact totally destroying wet blanket NAD 10x over
OK... i found them... they were infinity RS1000s... i can never fiind them as i keep calling them RC1000s, but saved a pic on my thumb drive for the next time the topic comes up. i loved those CHEAP little speakers and tried to buy my buddy's pair, at a profit even, as none of the 4 shops in town sold infinity
Edits: 12/30/17 12/30/17Follow Ups:
"class D is INHERENTLY a superior sounding tech as far as i'm concerned"Dr Hypex himself doesn't say that, in fact the opposite. Class D is electrically far more efficient, and if you can manage around the problems---which haven't been until the last 10 years---it's a good economic solution. (And I'm a fan and own two Hypex-Based amplifiers)
S&V: Generally speaking, what are the key benefits of Class D versus the traditional Class AB and Class A designs that have long been favored by audiophiles?
BP: Efficiency and therefore the ability to construct amps that are powerful for their size. Only that. Modern Class D amps, in particular mine—ahem—sound good not because they're Class D, but in spite of it. I can't repeat that often enough. Left to its own devices, a switching power stage tries to do just about anything except amplify audio. You choose Class D to save energy but it's all elbow grease after that. People don't realize how much more challenging Class D is compared to Class AB. It's truly an order of magnitude.
Edits: 12/30/17
Great response ....
Bruno is quite impressed by his own genius---but in this case I think it is deserved. Michelangelo didn't think much of most of his rivals either, having none worthy until Bernini.Anyway, I appreciate BP's nonlinear dynamical systems/physics-oriented solution, understanding that orientation---very different than classical linear frequency-domain electrical engineering---was the key. I once worked on chaos-based communication systems (carrier wave is nonlinear chaos).
He also says something else pretty interesting about A/AB amplifiers:
BP: Well, if the amplifier is truly great that's absolutely right. Sonic signatures are what you get when you approach the same ideal from different angles. There are a few distortion mechanisms conspicuously missing in Class D, mostly those related to the input stage of a Class A(B) solid-state amplifier and nonlinear capacitances. Those are also missing in valve [tube] amplifiers so it's quite common for people to notice that a Class D amplifier is somehow reminiscent of valve amplification in terms of "sweetness" for want of a better word.
I've heard several reports of valve aficionados ditching their glassware and switching to Ncore. All I can conclude from that is that those people clearly weren't actively seeking the distortion of valves as many believe, but instead had a legitimate beef with certain sonic aspects common to most solid-state designs. That's one thing I have to explain again and again to my fellow doubters: when audiophiles report a particular listening experience, that experience is real. Trust that. Just don't trust the explanation they proffer.
Edits: 12/31/17
Sadly the Class D amps also introduce their own, IMO unpleasant, distortion that is absent in linear amp technology and why I stayed with tubes after trying a few different Class D technologies.
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