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In Reply to: RE: "giant killing" class D amps? posted by cawson@onetel.com on December 30, 2017 at 03:17:13
FYI, the M22 is an Ncore-based amplifier.https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-masters-series-m22-power-amplifier
Dave.
Edits: 12/30/17Follow Ups:
On delving into the NAD site, it seems that Stereophile is correct. The M22 uses Ncore, but the M2 and M32 use Direct Digital, now owned by Cambridge Silicon Radio. Tt's presumably because the M22 is nothing more than a power amp, whereas the M2 and M32 are a lot more - preamp DACs with gain, etc. The NAD white paper gives valid reasons for choosing the DDFA for their M2 and M32.
Edits: 12/30/17 12/30/17
NAD uses two distinct class D sets, Hypex based, in M22 (nCore) and D3020 (lower Hypex amp), and the other one from CSR.
Contrary to some people's beliefs, the "D" in "class D" does not refer to or imply 'digital'
There are digital class D amplifiers, and there are analog class D amplifiers. The central issue is the representation of the signal and feedback in the primary control loop.
For analog amplifiers, digital inputs need conversion to analog before amplification. For digital amplifiers, analog inputs need conversion to digital before amplification. The amplifier performs the conversion to analog, it is a "power DAC".
It would be erroneous to assume either is intrinsically better on all merits.
Hypex amplifiers are analog class D. The Zetex/CSR are digital class D. NAD uses both types depending on the product.
I find my M22 excellent, essentially perfect, for my main speakers, and my D3020 very good within its power limitation.
Hi, cawson,
Your comment made me chuckle. Things have changed so much lately that the lowly power amp has become the Rodney Dangerfield of audio land. :-)
Regards,
Tom
I believe CSR is now part of Qualcomm. I have been looking into what differences there are between the c390dd and m32 and it looks like about the only thing is the move from Zetex to CSR other than a couple of features. Are you aware of anything else, even as it relates to how these compare with the m2?
I am hoping the m32 offers an improvement over the c390dd as I just bought one to be delivered soon.
Zetex was bought by CSR so probably no difference there. I was unaware that CSR is now part of Qualcomm.The M32 has a very similar spec but it does have a great touch screen and it has a bit more power. The M32 has 4 MDC slots (2 large and 2 small) with 2 free slots for BluOS card, etc. The 390DD has 3 MDC slots (1 large and 2 small) but they all seem to be used if the photo on NAD's site is correct - which means you have to forgo the analogue inputs if you want to add the BluOS card - they are both large size. The M32 has a headphone socket.
I assume there's a step up in quality in areas such as casework and probably power supply to justify the higher price and perhaps explains the extra 2Kg in weight.
I'm very pleased indeed with the M32 and I'm sure you will be too. I have the BluOS card fitted so I can access my music stored on a NAS and internet radio of course - and streaming services such as Tidal and Qubuz. The M32 supports MQA - not sure about the 390DD. I'm looking to get an M50.2 soon in which case I won't need the BluOS card in the M32.
Edits: 12/30/17
Thanks. I was not aware zetex was acquired by CSR. So I wonder what has changed under the hood on these units since the m2? Hard to believe it's nothing.
My c390dd is fully loaded with the analog card and newer smaller BluOS card. The phono stage in the analog card is not great but the adc is transparent so I use an outboad and am hoping/expecting the m32 phono stage is improved. Have you used it?
The c390dd does support mqa via bluos. I am going to yank the card out of it and put it in the m32. The c390 even offers rudimentary, yet effective room eq in the form of a 5 band eq covering the lower frequencies that works with a spl meter. I am hoping this omission in the m32 is due to Dirac live implementation on the roadmap.
Anyway, I am assuming the m32 improved the power supply as you suggest and that they use better parts. The m32 is a stunner aesthetically.
What are you expecting to get out of the m50.2? I have read that it's bluos implementation is more sophisticated, but haven't dug into the details.
I have the Mk I BluOS card that fits the large slots. From what you say, the Mk II is slimmer for the smaller slots.
I've not used any of the analogue inputs on the M32, nor on the M12 that I'll be selling soon, as I have no analogue devices.
Apart from hopefully even better streaming and radio, I'm expecting the M50.2 to play my stored music from its built-in HDs far better than via a remote NAS. My RipNAS is nearly full and its ripper needs replacing, hence my impatience to get an M50.2. Also as I recently sold my Mark Levinson 390S CDP, the M50.2 will offer both CD ripping and playback without ripping - a very rare feature for some reason.
I took delivery of an M32 Wednesday. I am acutely aware of psychological bias, and I think it is the most understated element of our hobby, and it is early in my ownership- but I have to say that the m32 seems to be so far beyond the c390dd that it defies logic. The best amplifier I have ever owned is a Devialet 120, and the m32 is definitely in this territory- if not even better. I have a ton of travel coming up, but will do a write up after I get a few hundred hours on it. Also, FYI- here is a link that indicates some promise that DIRAC Live may be added to the m12/m32. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1530195-nad-m17-m27-43.html#post55411882
Recognizing your post is a year old, I'm curious if you kept the M32 and how you'd characterize the contrast to C390DD (which I own and am considering upgrading to M32). Thanks
Les - Excellent that you are immediately impressed by the M32. I bought mine 10 months old, so I can't suggest how much or little improvement you will notice after burning in.I presume you have installed the BluOS card from the C390 into the M32. I look forward to your update when you return from your travels.
I've read a little about DIRAC but I must admit I don't know how it works. Is it an extra box in the signal path, or is it 100% software that is used by M32 to adjust for room / speaker deficiencies? I'm thinking of getting Martin Logan 13A speakers which have their own ARC system for sub-500 Hz equalisation. Peter
Edits: 01/06/18
Ahh, I see. In your case the m50.2 makes sense. I use a NAS, but just end up streaming Spotify, Tidal or Radio Paradise 99% of the time so it is not on the front of my mind.
The newer bluos card is smaller, but offers no other advantage.
I have become a big fan of NAD over the last few years. I used to raise my nose at the brand and consider it as mid fi, but with tech like this a company of Lenbrooks scale can simply do things that small boutique companies cannot. They have also shifted their focus, and gone upmarket and the new masters stuff is undoubtedly the real deal.
Have you found a good community of m32 users anywhere?
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