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Re: an e-mail to Thorsten about Tweeters and woofers.

195.99.125.202

Hi there,

>Then Peerless, Vifa and SS were used in my projects. I tried to
>be happy about them, but deep down in my soul, I was screaming.

This is the classic "High-End" Problem.

>I am not saying that they sound bad, they just cannot strike a
>chord with my heart. Just not right.

Eggsagtly.... This is the "Chicken & Egg" Problem of "HiFi". Do we attempt to obtain good measurements for certain specific aspects of a System or do we attempt to make something that sounds good? These two are not neccesarily mutually exclusive, but cuse problems.

If you make a Speaker that is perfectly flat within 20Hz - 20kHz in the (Anaechonic) Torture Chamber on axis, what will this tell us about the frequency response behaviour of the Speaker in a given real room?

ZIP, ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING. Yet flat Frequency response (as opposed to "evenly balanced Energy distribution with modest MF/HF Roloff" which is much more alike to the concert experience) is an engineering goal that is beeing held as a sacred cow.

On the other hand Distortion and Compression in Drivers (and Speakers) is a non-issue outside the Pro-Audio Area.

So, who is right and who is wrong? In the "old Days" Measurement Equipment was basic, a lot of stuff could not be measured reliably, so the ultimate Yardstick was "does it sound good".

Nothing left the garage unless it did sound good (in adaptation of the old HP Motto). Measurements where taken, but seen mostly as supporting evidence. As a result, regardless if the conventional measurements where good or not, regardless if all that should be measured to charaterise equipment or not, the Endproduct usually had a degree of sonic quality and integrity that can match much of todays best in terms of musical satisfaction.

Listen to an original 1960's Pair of Klipsch Cornwall's or Klipschorns, driven from a Marantz 7 Preamp and a pair of Marantz 9 Poweramps in Triode Mode. Feed that thing some nice Slabs of Vinyl via a Garrard 301 or 401 Turtable in a good Plinth, combined with a Ortophon SPU-GT Cartridge and an Ortophon RMG-309 Arm.

Such a system delivers MUSIC. And most of the key components go back to late 1940's Technology. Most of this Equipment and it's underlying principles where arrived at as much "by ear" as they where by measurements.

Nowadays Engineers are confident in that their Measurements actually directly correlate with percieved sonic quality. It stands without saying, that more often than not the measurements are incomplete and correlation with percieved sound is poor. Not that stops a "good Engineer", in such a case it is the Listeners fault "for liking Coloration" or whatever....

It is in that kind of climate that much of todays "HiFi" is being developed. With the obvious predictable result.

>Will Lowther promise me the same thing--High hope in the beginning
>and a long deep slop straight to hell?

Perhaps. Lowthers are very British. They are a lot like a British Roadster. They can be great, but it takes a lot of skill to get the best from them.

>I was thinking about a design with one Lowther driver combined
>with one T and one W. Lowther will have no crossover, or maybe
>just a resister to match the impedance with T and W. T will have
>a simple 1st order crossover at 5k Hz or above, and the W will
>have 150 Hz 1st order crossover (or below150Hz).

I am listening at the Moment to a similar Speaker. There the Lwothers Whizzer was removed. The Lowther operates with a Crossover, but with a passive Equaliser to even out the Frequency Response. The Tweeter is a special Cone type, I think the Focal TC120Tdx (or whatever the current Version is) could be used instead quite successfully if a slight hornloading is applied.

The Woofer faces to the Rear and is a 12" Pro-Audio Paper Cone Type, crossed over at about 200Hz. The Enclosure is a special, compact horn, propriartry to the Company making these Speakers, but using a vented enclosure is not impossible.

I personally would suggest to use a variation of the 90Hz Hyperbolic Edgarhorn to load the Lowther, add a suiatble Tweeter (I like the Visaton TL16 very much) above around 12 - 15kHz and add a suitable (active)Subwoofer. For the Sub I'd recommend using something based around 15" to 18" Pro-Audio Drivers suitably equalised, rather than classic "HiFi" Subwoofers.

Some LC Equalisation of the Lowther will be neccesary (IMHO), but a System Sensitivity of around 97 - 98db/W/m should be possible. I recommend at least the DX2, but really the DX3 is the one to go for. And get the new "holey doorknob" Phaseplug as found on the DX4 too. This, with some RLC Equlisation and in the 90Hz Edgars should give a good Balance and 90Hz - 15kHz in room Response form the Lowther.

Then matching the rest will be easy.

>Do you know where I can listen to Lowther speakers? I live in
>Urbana/IL, 61802.

I live in London, UK so no comments about the US.

>Well, I don't think they can be really good without a T.
>Please don't tell me that a 5 or 6 inches driver will vibrate
>perfectly at 15k Hz.

Remeber, it has got a Whizzer.... ;-) This is like a 3.5" Cone Tweeter....

Later T


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  • Re: an e-mail to Thorsten about Tweeters and woofers. - Thorsten 04:58:07 06/01/00 (0)


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