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RE: In the interests of preserving peace and harmony. . .

Posted by Chris from Lafayette (A) on March 22, 2011 at 09:38:46

In Reply to: RE: In the interests of preserving peace and harmony. . . posted by Travis on March 21, 2011 at 13:24:04:

IMO, there has been a lot more research on this subject after about the mid-1960s than there was before then and subsequent application of that research. I think the late, lamented David Munrow was one of the catalysts for fresh thought coupled with painstakng research on medieval and renaissance performance practice.
Undoubtedly true - but I'm not aware of any NEW discoveries, merely a hardening of the minimalist approach to vibrato. I was having this HIP stuff crammed down my throat pretty much all through the 70's.

For the baroque era, I'm so glad we have more choices of interpretation than just ASMF, the Bach Collegium, Viruosi di Roma, I Musici and the big band sounds of NYPO, BPO, BSO and so forth not to mention the heavier voices needed to sing over such an aggregation. The bands play well enough, of course, but with too many folks playing the same line with all those vibrati clashing with each other makes for a lack of transparency leading to the perception of a certain doggedness which can also result in leaden tempi. At that point, it becomes debilitating to many listeners and does not serve the music well. It is mostly chamber music after all.
I cry, "Foul!" :-) First of all, I don't think is fair or accurate to lump groups such as ASMF, I Musici, etc. with "big band" sounds of symphony orchestras. But in any case, I'm all in favor of more choices of interpretation myself - that's why I find your point ironic: do you disagree that if I go out and try to find a recent (say, last couple of decades) recording of, say, a Bach Cantata I have much of a choice at all if I'm after a non-HIP performance? I can tell you from experience: it's not easy to find a non-HIP performances of this repertoire anymore. Yes indeed, I wish there were more choices of interpretation! I also take issue with your contention that vibrato in itself makes for a lack of transparency: maybe true in you perception, not in mine. Then you throw in "doggedness" and "leaden tempi" - is that your slippery slope if vibrato is permitted? Be assured, I'm not pointing to Klemperer as the finest exemplar of Baroque style! :-) BTW, going back to my OP on this thread, I found that the Collegium Terpsichore performances are LESS dogged and LESS leaden than David Munrow is in the same Praetorius dances I referred to.

And, are you saying you prefer clarinet players who use vibrato most of the time as in your example from the 1950s? I truly love those Czech wind sections but as you well know, vibrato has little to do with their excellence.
You're correct that vibrato has little to do with the excellence of the player, but it is part of the CzPO "sound" that many listeners cherish. I don't know if you've heard the story of Julian Lloyd Weber recording the Dvorak Cello Concerto with Vaclav Neumann and the CzPO. During the sessions, Neumann made a reference to the woodwind sounds of the orchestra, and said that he hoped Weber would not be thrown off because they did not sound like the winds in Western European orchestras. "Not at all," Weber replied, "that's why we're here!"

I've been listening and performing this period of music for over forty years and when I heard the new wave of performance styles that emerged, I couldn't go back.
Excellent - I'm very happy for you. I think our experience levels are similar, but, as I've mentioned before, I believe the mannerisms of the HIP movement are merely a device to differentiate the HIP "product" from traditional performing styles. Yeah, I'm cynical here.

I also understand your inability to resist a slam at current medieval, renaissance and baroque era performance practice.
Yup - I can't resist a good slam every now and then! :-) But I'm not as certain as you are that current HIP orthodoxy really represents the actual practice. I mean, if I want to go see a performance without vibrato, I'll go to a concert by my local elementary school orchestra! :-)

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