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In Reply to: RE: Auditioned a McIntosh MAC5200 yesterday posted by airtime on November 10, 2017 at 12:22:08
Similar experience here when I auditioned a McIntosh tube integrated on B&W speakers. Had the sales rep swap the McIntosh out for a relatively inexpensive Musical Fidelity integrated and it was so much better.
Maybe McIntosh just don't sound great on B&W speakers.... or they just don't sound great period.
Follow Ups:
A couple weeks ago I stoppped in the perimeter BB here in Atlanta as it was next door to a tile shop I visited (bathroom remodel) and it was raining like crazy out. I stop in the Magnolia section and shoot the breeze.. what new, boy those are huge Mc Amps (the had the dual mono amps hooked up to a set of Martin Logans) Instead one of the three sales guys standing around asked if I'd like to listen to the new B&W 702's. I said sure. a couple of minutes of fumbling around and finally we get a loud "blatt" and he rapidly turns down the sound level. I listen for a minute or so, and comment, "the right speaker has a vibration in the midrange."
The companies that sell out of BB/Magnolia really ought to watch out or make sure the staff is trained in the operation-at least, Ideally in the kind of clientele that these products would be a market for...
\
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
I wonder if the BB Magnolia folks are the same ones who sell kitchen appliances and cordless phones? ;-)
The last time I visited a BB Magnolia corner of the store, they had Krell and Martin Logan. That was a few years back. I should drop by just to see what my local Magnolia is carrying these days.
Yup, I'm sure that's how they blew up a few tens of thousands of dollars in amps, speakers and subwoofers when I was there. See post below.
I had forgotten about that. Around a year ago I was just looking around in that same store. They had what I would call the biggest SS amp I'd ever seen hooked up to some even bigger speaker. An increasingly loud shrill developed that could be heard through out the entire store. Then the pretty blue 600 pound amp made a LOUD BOOM POP sound and went dark.
I know that sound and I'm sure it took out those speakers as well.
They look like a million bucks but sound about like $2.50. Once I was thinking of picking up a MC152, just because I had the "I gotta have a Mac" itch. Luckily I just put some steroid cream on it and moved onto something else.
And the sound of MC Amps have always pleased me. But heck, I like my Crown Pro Amps too. So discount everything I say....
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
Its the real deal. Not all ARCs, CJs, Carys, are the same either.
Sometimes they are $2.50. Or $250 but selling for much more. I was loaned a McIntosh CD transport many years ago. When I opened the case I found inside a complete TEAC player (TEAC mechanism, TEAC circuit boards and with no boards labelled McIntosh). Not one of the top end players such as their Esoteric range either as the mechanism was of mostly plastic construction.
My preferred brand makes more of their parts than anyone else in the audio industry so if one goes down this road of who makes the parts then it really just becomes a matter of degrees. Many audio companies make the casework and have their product label on the front and that's about it - including many of the big name audiophile brands. Amplifiers are the transformers and caps and the resistors and the wiring. Similar to a fine watch - Omega buys the movement from Swatch(Omega is now owned by the Swatch group) - but you don't pay Swatch prices you pay near Rolex prices. If you are going to pay the premium I prefer to pay the premium for the company that actually makes the movement not the one buying it and slapping their logo on the front.
Now if I am NOT paying the premium price this is absolutely fine. You can buy a Monoprice Monoloth amplifier for much less money than an ATI so why not get the no name for a lower price - same for several Chinese labels that make high end audio brands - if you figure it out you could buy Shengya, Jungson, Line Magnetic (who make several other brands) for considerably less money.
McIntosh turntable being made by Clearaudio is fine because there is no direct equal from Clearaudio - perhaps the co-production McIntosh/clearaudio sounds better? Or just as good as a more expensive Clearaudio. I have less issue with McIntosh going to a very reputable brand like Clearaudio to make a turntable.
My old NAD 533 was a Rega P2 Clone - exact same turntable with the same Rega 250 tone arm and Goldring cartridge but NAD added a cartridge and it was $50 less than a Rega p2 without a cart. So if you did your research - you should have bought the NAD and saved at least $50 + whatever you would pay for a cart.
This stuff has gone on for decades - I remember my dad's Ford Aerostar - when the interior door panel pulled off it had Nissan or Mazda (I forget which) stamped on it. My Honda Civic had a GM battery (Delco I think).
So all of this is fairly common. And even the brand I like that makes more internal parts than anyone else STILL has to source parts especially on the affordable range of the line. It is too cost prohibitive especially if you want to make it in non slave labour countries.
I also would not get too brand biased - Take each product on its own merit because you may well not like any given product from a manufacturer but you may like a different one. This is especially true of tube makers where you may love the EL34 amp and not their KT88 even though both use the same quality parts and even roughly the same price.
With McIntosh - they make SS, OTL and tube amps - they don't sound alike. Thus it stands to reason you will like some and dislike others.
Having a style (whether one likes it or not) doesn't mean it automatically sucks either.
I suppose the thing to do is just compare the given McIntosh model to what else you can buy for similar money and decide - but not make that decision in a big box chain.
You really ought to stay in the present time zone on your horology. Bulova's high end watches feature in-house made movements and have for five years. The rest of your post, though not demonstrably wrong, sounds like the arbitrary rantings of a lunatic. Door panels in a Ford Aerostar? Huh!
Let's face some reality now. When a brand sells at Best Buy and Audio Advisor, you have a pretty good clue that the manufacturer has very little pride, and most likely for good reason.
Edits: 11/21/17
Are you sure McIntosh makes OTLs??? I know Mactone does but I don't think McIntosh does.
The OP was aimed at the specific model MAC5200 and not the entire brand. You are right to point out that every brand has it's winners and clunkers. I'm a die hard vintage Marantz fan and not ever vintage Marantz was a gem. There were a number of clunkers made.As for parts we can all chew on this for a while. Most if not all of the individual parts were made by someone else. All those caps, transistor and resistors were probably made some where in the far east. Then assembled to make your fine ultra high end USA made stereo. However what those companies DO do it they maintain a level of quality OF those parts. I don't have a problem with that, I'm just pointing that out as you already did.
Edits: 11/12/17
Most of your high end players have transports made by a different manufacturer. The cost of retooling for most of the high end companys would be cost prohibited, plus you would have to pay BIG licensing fees. The very highly regarded Ayre players used an Oppo transport at one time and DCS was using one of Esoterics top transports for their players.I believe the Parasound Perfect Wave Transport used a LG drive. So, you can't really fault McIntosh for that.I was like you at one time, didn't care for McIntosh at all. Until a few months ago, when I bought a used McIntosh Integrated, cd player and tuner from Audio Classics. Owning a McIntosh is more than just the sound (which is on par with the other audiophile brands), it's an experience, its the pride of ownership, it's the feel of all the controls...just right, it's the build quality and the fact that they manufacture as much as possible for every unit in house, right down to the screws, nuts and washers used to fasten them together at their factory in Binghamton, NY. The sum of all this is what makes a McIntosh a McIntosh.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Roger Waters
Edits: 11/11/17
They manufacture their own screws, nuts, and washers? You can't be serious. If you are, and they do, that's gotta be the most stupid waste of manufacturing resources I've ever heard of.
You missed what I was saying. Everyone knows that CD or CD/SACD mechanisms for most players come from one of the OEM mech producers. The point that I made was that the entire mechanical and electronic features of the McIntosh player were TEAC. The only Mcintosh parts were the aluminium extrusion side panels, the top and bottom plates and the glass fluorescent front panel. It was,effectively, a complete TEAC transport in another box.In comparison the only Esoteric components in a dCS transport are the mechanical parts plus the optics and the Sony SACD encryption decoding chip. Everything else is from dCS themselves. BTW at the time of the McIntosh transport that I am talking about dCS were using Sony mechanisms.
If I remember correctly at the time of this transport McIntosh were charging several times the retail price of the the TEAC that lived inside the shell.
Oh, and it didn't sound great either. Maybe things are better with their current digital offerings. I have to admit that the transport I am talking about was a relatively early effort from them (or TEAC).
Edits: 11/11/17 11/11/17
their Halloweenish looking turntable is made by Clearaudio.
I've seen it in person. I was not impressed. No idea how it sounds, I was interested in speakers, and the store preferred to stream.
Jack
And a platter speed dial too!!!
It's been a few years since I've heard a modern McIntosh solid-state amp. What was their "house sound," again?
Thanks!
All I have ever heard is the sound of "overpriced" (with exceptions like 2275 tube amp). Those blue meters sure do appeal to wealthy non-audiophile status seekers though.
"Those blue meters sure do appeal to wealthy non-audiophile status seekers though"I am neither wealthy or a non-audiophile, but my McIntosh system which by the way is my secondary system, gives me much more musical pleasure than my full audiophile approved main system. You can look up on here if you so wish. You made a really bad generalization which truly burns me. Perhaps your parents never taught you that if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Roger Waters
Edits: 11/11/17
I am with you, the status comment is ridiculous.Status seeking? From whom? I have a McIntosh integrated amp. I have yet to have a single friend or family member who even knew what It is upon seeing it for the first time. So how then does it confer status on me if people don't know anything about it? Plus, it's not like a BMW or a Rolex watch which is driven or worn in public. The amp sits in my den Where few will ever see it.
Edits: 11/16/17
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