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And wow was I underwhelmed! Hooked up to some very nice B&W speakers too. It was rather flat and uninspiring.
This was at Best Buy in Scottsdale and they do let you "play" with the toys. Mainly because it's big bucks area and they really don't know WHO you are. I tried a few other speakers but it was the same thing - flat and dull.
Follow Ups:
I haven't posted on this forum in years. I think it' great that Best Buy/Magnolia is affiliated with the McIntosh brand. But, they probably aren't too invested in serious hi-fi...sacd, vinyl...etc.
Proud McIntosh MAC-6700 owner. I could buy a more "euphonic" integrated amp that would last me 24-36 months. In fact...been there, done that. This piece will outlive me at 55 years old.
McIntosh MAC-6700
Dynaudio Focus 160
Sony XA-5400 ES
***************
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.
John Lennon
I agree with you 100%. I'm 64 and my McIntosh equipment will be handed down to my son some day. McIntosh will probably still be in business but I am not so sure about some of the uber expensive boutique brands of high end gear.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Roger Waters
We use almost daily a McIntosh 240 purchased originally in 1965. An excellent instrument with which we have explored a lot if wonderful music.
I did listen to one a year or so back and it be honest it really did sound quite nice. I can't remember what it was paired up with. Not B&W's I'm assuming?
Again the review of the OP was not targeted at the entire line just the MC5300. I always like Mac's preamps, tubed amps and smaller non-uber stuff.
I wouldn't trust Best Buy as far as I could throw the store. Maybe they don't do it at the store you were at, but they do it at some stores; deliberately configure the demo to sell you some other product because it's "as good as" the Mac.
Did they, by any chance, recommend something else? A big Red Flag if they did.
B&W speakers partnered with a solid state Mac amp is like mixing orange juice with milk. It is just a poor combo. They do not compliment each other at all.
And auditioning anything at Best Buy is always a dodgy thing thing to do, a good indie dealer will pick brands which gel well together. Best Buy will do the typical corporation approach - aim for the lowest common denominator. In this case - go for brands people with a little knowledge think are gonna be good.
B&W's house sound insipid midrange and over-enthusiastic high frequency presentation is hard enough on the ears as it is, but to have these sonic over-steers driven by a Mac SS amp is a recipe for the audio equivalent of a meal at Marie Callender.
Picking the right amp for any given pair of speakers is arguably the most critical piecing of an audio system puzzle. And it has very little to do with wattage.
But the McIntosh MC2KW monoblocks together with the C1100 2-Channel preamplifier using the MCD550 SACD player as the source while driving the B&W 803 D3 speakers sounding very neutral and non-fatiguing Also it was well-balanced with no peakiness whatsoever in either frequency extremes. And another thing you can clearly hear the breathing of the musicians. If there were any enthusiastic and oversteer in high-frequency extremes I haven't heard them, maybe my ears are not as acute as yours.
If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)
Glad to hear you have the balance you seek with your system.
I can't afford them. I was just auditioning them recently at my local high-end dealer.
If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)
I saw one of those 2KW amps blow once. Glad it wasn't mine!!!
that somebody was able to blow them from normal use with that kind of power reserve. Unless they were using 7 Apogee Scintilla speaker system for HT set up but even so.
If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)
a high-end toaster?
Prolly, just me...
8^)
.
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You're lucky that McIntosh employees are not frequent here otherwise there'll be a new toaster in their design alongside with its clock.
If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)
It was at a Magnolia Best Buy. God only knows what it was hooked up too? There was a subwoofer involved so who knows what happened????
Sounds like dump on Mac time again!
Like anything else in audio it's what you pair with what and where you hear it . Probably Best Buy is not the ideal place for an audition of any good audio equipment ( I'm guessing it was in one of their "Magnolia" store areas?). In any case I've used a Mac 2275 tube integrated with B&W 805s's in conjunction with a Mirage subwoofer for a number of years to good effect. The detailed ( overly so with some amps) B&W sound compliments the output of the transformer coupled Mac along with a change to Gold Lion KT88 output tubes. This has long been my "fall back" system when I'm messing around with other stuff ( see my profile) it gives me a good reference for comparison. One other thing to consider is that in my experience Mac products tend to maintain their level of performance over a longer period of time than some other brands.
Oh and most if not all of the " high end" brands lacked the finances and ability to develope their own CD transports (and in some cases electronics) and thus frequently used Philips , Sony or any of a variety of Asian manufacturers in their brands packaging. So there should be no surprise with the Mac/ Teac tie in mentioned in this thread.
Edits: 11/12/17 11/14/17
...my local Magnolia does an awesome job of setting up their high-end systems in a fashion that no doubt shows off the full extent of their sonic attributes.
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I guess they are fans of near field listening.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Edits: 11/14/17
Yeah Dean, that Fisher Rack system setup training certainly bears fruit when you graduate from the regular Best Buy Audio section and become a "High End" Magnolia sales associate!
Oh, and I'll have to give that power amp under turntable and over preamp setup a try sometime. It should lead to some interesting electro magnetic fields ! ( hummmmm 🙄). They did forget the Beats headphones though.
Edits: 11/14/17
It was the McIntosh MA2275 tube integrated along with B&W floor standing speakers that I auditioned about 10 years ago at ListenUp in Boulder, CO.I don't recall the B&W model but they were somewhere in the middle of their product line, not their higher end line and not the ones with diamond tweeters.
I just recall the music being dull and flat until we swapped the MA2275 out for a relatively inexpensive Musical Fidelity solid-state integrated. The music came alive with better dynamics and extension, along with a smile on my face that was missing with the Mac. I wanted to like the MA2275 'cuz it looked so cool but I just couldn't. Personal preference perhaps but I've heard others describe the McIntosh sound in a similar way.
Just to be clear, I'm a real fan of tube gear but in this case the Mac wasn't doing it for me.
Edits: 11/12/17
Well, a couple of comments,
First the change to the Gold Lion Kt88's did liven up the amp substantially over the McIntosh supplied output tubes ( Electro Harmonix I believe) secondly Abe you were able to live with Bryston amps a few years back that were just way too bright, hard and two dimensional for my ear so there obviously is a preference difference in what each of us looks for ( oh, and my B&W 805's are the S model that predates the diamond tweeter so that would not be a consideration) . Finally I chose the integrated MA2275 over the MC275 power amp and C220 preamp because I felt it had a cleaner more detailed sound due to the simplified signal path ( no interconnects involved ). Most importantly I still enjoy listening to the amp and speaker combo in my room. Thanks for the interchange.
Well, actually I wasn't able to live with the Bryston amps. I tried a few tube preamps ahead of the Brystons to make them move livable to no avail. I gave up and sold the Brystons pretty quick.
My all time favorite amps have to be the AES/Cary SixPac 60wpc monoblocks AND the EL34 based 250wpc Manley Neo Classic monoblocks.
I'd have to give Mac another listen to give them a fair shake. Maybe the MC275.
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Yeah, it's funny how that goes, sometimes a component "wows" you when you first get it into your system but then over the long run some aspect of it just irritates you to the point that It has to go . I had a Counterpoint SA3 / SA12 pair that just didn't work for me ( there have been others too!) over the long run with the speaker system ( Magnapan MG1, Sequerra HF1 ribbon tweeters and a Citation 12 driven KEF B139 based transmission line subwoofer ) I was using back then. The Mac/B&W combo has been just the opposite , it never wow'd me but it was always a combo I could fall back on to just listen to music when my attempt at assembling another system wasn't working.
That's also the reason I don't post too often as my choices are exactly that and not a universal proclamation of the correct way to do anything. That said once in a while a topic ( like this one I guess) gets me going 😉.
Edits: 11/13/17
I almost got the last one one, got the 275 and 2500 instead, all tube, am loving it for almost 5 years , trouble free.
I'm glad I missed out on the one you heard!
what was in that Integrated.
Never read a bad review or heard complaints about the 275,
unless....
I always liked Mac's preamps. I thought they really did do those well.
all sound great at my house.
Kef Speakers are a great match for Macs.
Dealers should take more care in presenting their gear.
Lots of people claim Macs are tubby, dull, lifeless, etc.
Don't understand That at all!
You listened to their cheapest integrated which doesn't have the output transformers. The units with the output transformers gives that lush and rich McIntosh house sound. You missed the boat by a few miles.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Roger Waters
Mac does have it's "house" sound, same as many other brands, you either like Mac's sound or not. I like it better than some but personally it's not my type of sound to have in my system.
I did hear a Mac set up with the new reference preamp and driving some large Sonus Faber. That was a good sounding system. A bit wooly in the bass but we thought it may be the room.
I don't know how some of the integrated amps do with B&W, I heard the kilowatt monoblocks push the big Nautilus, I have never heard B&W come alive like that before. More of a bass response I ever heard Classe or ARC get out of them.
At my local Best Buy they had beautiful Mac separates driving the full Panel Martin Logans. I was excited to hear something good at BB. t sounded terrible and very compressed.
The only source they had was lossy streaming.
I heard the same ML speakers sound good at CAF last week.
It was a CD source with some nice Jazz. They even had a small selection of CD's to choose from.
you got the full monty light show - green backlight escutcheon and the blue BFMs! The slightly newer 5300 adds a red LED just in case you're not aware that it's on.
What else do you want? ;)
Similar experience here when I auditioned a McIntosh tube integrated on B&W speakers. Had the sales rep swap the McIntosh out for a relatively inexpensive Musical Fidelity integrated and it was so much better.
Maybe McIntosh just don't sound great on B&W speakers.... or they just don't sound great period.
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A couple weeks ago I stoppped in the perimeter BB here in Atlanta as it was next door to a tile shop I visited (bathroom remodel) and it was raining like crazy out. I stop in the Magnolia section and shoot the breeze.. what new, boy those are huge Mc Amps (the had the dual mono amps hooked up to a set of Martin Logans) Instead one of the three sales guys standing around asked if I'd like to listen to the new B&W 702's. I said sure. a couple of minutes of fumbling around and finally we get a loud "blatt" and he rapidly turns down the sound level. I listen for a minute or so, and comment, "the right speaker has a vibration in the midrange."
The companies that sell out of BB/Magnolia really ought to watch out or make sure the staff is trained in the operation-at least, Ideally in the kind of clientele that these products would be a market for...
\
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
I wonder if the BB Magnolia folks are the same ones who sell kitchen appliances and cordless phones? ;-)
The last time I visited a BB Magnolia corner of the store, they had Krell and Martin Logan. That was a few years back. I should drop by just to see what my local Magnolia is carrying these days.
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Yup, I'm sure that's how they blew up a few tens of thousands of dollars in amps, speakers and subwoofers when I was there. See post below.
I had forgotten about that. Around a year ago I was just looking around in that same store. They had what I would call the biggest SS amp I'd ever seen hooked up to some even bigger speaker. An increasingly loud shrill developed that could be heard through out the entire store. Then the pretty blue 600 pound amp made a LOUD BOOM POP sound and went dark.
I know that sound and I'm sure it took out those speakers as well.
They look like a million bucks but sound about like $2.50. Once I was thinking of picking up a MC152, just because I had the "I gotta have a Mac" itch. Luckily I just put some steroid cream on it and moved onto something else.
And the sound of MC Amps have always pleased me. But heck, I like my Crown Pro Amps too. So discount everything I say....
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
Its the real deal. Not all ARCs, CJs, Carys, are the same either.
Sometimes they are $2.50. Or $250 but selling for much more. I was loaned a McIntosh CD transport many years ago. When I opened the case I found inside a complete TEAC player (TEAC mechanism, TEAC circuit boards and with no boards labelled McIntosh). Not one of the top end players such as their Esoteric range either as the mechanism was of mostly plastic construction.
My preferred brand makes more of their parts than anyone else in the audio industry so if one goes down this road of who makes the parts then it really just becomes a matter of degrees. Many audio companies make the casework and have their product label on the front and that's about it - including many of the big name audiophile brands. Amplifiers are the transformers and caps and the resistors and the wiring. Similar to a fine watch - Omega buys the movement from Swatch(Omega is now owned by the Swatch group) - but you don't pay Swatch prices you pay near Rolex prices. If you are going to pay the premium I prefer to pay the premium for the company that actually makes the movement not the one buying it and slapping their logo on the front.
Now if I am NOT paying the premium price this is absolutely fine. You can buy a Monoprice Monoloth amplifier for much less money than an ATI so why not get the no name for a lower price - same for several Chinese labels that make high end audio brands - if you figure it out you could buy Shengya, Jungson, Line Magnetic (who make several other brands) for considerably less money.
McIntosh turntable being made by Clearaudio is fine because there is no direct equal from Clearaudio - perhaps the co-production McIntosh/clearaudio sounds better? Or just as good as a more expensive Clearaudio. I have less issue with McIntosh going to a very reputable brand like Clearaudio to make a turntable.
My old NAD 533 was a Rega P2 Clone - exact same turntable with the same Rega 250 tone arm and Goldring cartridge but NAD added a cartridge and it was $50 less than a Rega p2 without a cart. So if you did your research - you should have bought the NAD and saved at least $50 + whatever you would pay for a cart.
This stuff has gone on for decades - I remember my dad's Ford Aerostar - when the interior door panel pulled off it had Nissan or Mazda (I forget which) stamped on it. My Honda Civic had a GM battery (Delco I think).
So all of this is fairly common. And even the brand I like that makes more internal parts than anyone else STILL has to source parts especially on the affordable range of the line. It is too cost prohibitive especially if you want to make it in non slave labour countries.
I also would not get too brand biased - Take each product on its own merit because you may well not like any given product from a manufacturer but you may like a different one. This is especially true of tube makers where you may love the EL34 amp and not their KT88 even though both use the same quality parts and even roughly the same price.
With McIntosh - they make SS, OTL and tube amps - they don't sound alike. Thus it stands to reason you will like some and dislike others.
Having a style (whether one likes it or not) doesn't mean it automatically sucks either.
I suppose the thing to do is just compare the given McIntosh model to what else you can buy for similar money and decide - but not make that decision in a big box chain.
You really ought to stay in the present time zone on your horology. Bulova's high end watches feature in-house made movements and have for five years. The rest of your post, though not demonstrably wrong, sounds like the arbitrary rantings of a lunatic. Door panels in a Ford Aerostar? Huh!
Let's face some reality now. When a brand sells at Best Buy and Audio Advisor, you have a pretty good clue that the manufacturer has very little pride, and most likely for good reason.
Edits: 11/21/17
Are you sure McIntosh makes OTLs??? I know Mactone does but I don't think McIntosh does.
The OP was aimed at the specific model MAC5200 and not the entire brand. You are right to point out that every brand has it's winners and clunkers. I'm a die hard vintage Marantz fan and not ever vintage Marantz was a gem. There were a number of clunkers made.As for parts we can all chew on this for a while. Most if not all of the individual parts were made by someone else. All those caps, transistor and resistors were probably made some where in the far east. Then assembled to make your fine ultra high end USA made stereo. However what those companies DO do it they maintain a level of quality OF those parts. I don't have a problem with that, I'm just pointing that out as you already did.
Edits: 11/12/17
Most of your high end players have transports made by a different manufacturer. The cost of retooling for most of the high end companys would be cost prohibited, plus you would have to pay BIG licensing fees. The very highly regarded Ayre players used an Oppo transport at one time and DCS was using one of Esoterics top transports for their players.I believe the Parasound Perfect Wave Transport used a LG drive. So, you can't really fault McIntosh for that.I was like you at one time, didn't care for McIntosh at all. Until a few months ago, when I bought a used McIntosh Integrated, cd player and tuner from Audio Classics. Owning a McIntosh is more than just the sound (which is on par with the other audiophile brands), it's an experience, its the pride of ownership, it's the feel of all the controls...just right, it's the build quality and the fact that they manufacture as much as possible for every unit in house, right down to the screws, nuts and washers used to fasten them together at their factory in Binghamton, NY. The sum of all this is what makes a McIntosh a McIntosh.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Roger Waters
Edits: 11/11/17
They manufacture their own screws, nuts, and washers? You can't be serious. If you are, and they do, that's gotta be the most stupid waste of manufacturing resources I've ever heard of.
You missed what I was saying. Everyone knows that CD or CD/SACD mechanisms for most players come from one of the OEM mech producers. The point that I made was that the entire mechanical and electronic features of the McIntosh player were TEAC. The only Mcintosh parts were the aluminium extrusion side panels, the top and bottom plates and the glass fluorescent front panel. It was,effectively, a complete TEAC transport in another box.In comparison the only Esoteric components in a dCS transport are the mechanical parts plus the optics and the Sony SACD encryption decoding chip. Everything else is from dCS themselves. BTW at the time of the McIntosh transport that I am talking about dCS were using Sony mechanisms.
If I remember correctly at the time of this transport McIntosh were charging several times the retail price of the the TEAC that lived inside the shell.
Oh, and it didn't sound great either. Maybe things are better with their current digital offerings. I have to admit that the transport I am talking about was a relatively early effort from them (or TEAC).
Edits: 11/11/17 11/11/17
their Halloweenish looking turntable is made by Clearaudio.
I've seen it in person. I was not impressed. No idea how it sounds, I was interested in speakers, and the store preferred to stream.
Jack
And a platter speed dial too!!!
It's been a few years since I've heard a modern McIntosh solid-state amp. What was their "house sound," again?
Thanks!
All I have ever heard is the sound of "overpriced" (with exceptions like 2275 tube amp). Those blue meters sure do appeal to wealthy non-audiophile status seekers though.
"Those blue meters sure do appeal to wealthy non-audiophile status seekers though"I am neither wealthy or a non-audiophile, but my McIntosh system which by the way is my secondary system, gives me much more musical pleasure than my full audiophile approved main system. You can look up on here if you so wish. You made a really bad generalization which truly burns me. Perhaps your parents never taught you that if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Roger Waters
Edits: 11/11/17
I am with you, the status comment is ridiculous.Status seeking? From whom? I have a McIntosh integrated amp. I have yet to have a single friend or family member who even knew what It is upon seeing it for the first time. So how then does it confer status on me if people don't know anything about it? Plus, it's not like a BMW or a Rolex watch which is driven or worn in public. The amp sits in my den Where few will ever see it.
Edits: 11/16/17
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