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Tubes Asylum Questions about tubes and gear that glows. FAQ |
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Tubes Asylum Questions about tubes and gear that glows. FAQ |
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In Reply to: Tesla (not JJ) ECC88 '60s and '79 and Tungsram E88CC posted by Frihed89 on August 12, 2008 at 01:00:57:
Frihed89,
I use a total of 17- 6DJ8 family tubes in the Audio Research SP8 (2), SP10 (12), and D115 (3).
With an Audio Research SP10, finding the right tubes- sonics being the first priority but ruggedness and quietness almost equally- has been a long struggle. The SP10 is high gain and pushes the tubes along. I bought 6DJ8s that sounded glorious but that became noisy in less than 10 hours.
The Sovtek and EH6922 and the E188CC (7308) seems to be most of the answer, and I bought 20-NOS Philips/Amperx/Valvo E188CCs for gain positions, guessing that of the 20, perhaps 4-6 will be good enough for the SP10. Then I began hearing that the Tungsram E88CC was based on the Siemens and was as tough as the Sovteks. Audible Illusions Modulus preamps seem to share the SP10's need for ruggedness and on their website give recommendations for 6922s. Note that this list is by reliability as a first priority:
[FROM Audible Illusions: http://www.audibleillusions.com/technical/bulletin5.htm]
>"NEW-OLD-STOCK TUBES - From our extensive tube library we recommend these NOS tubes with some reservation.
Ranking in order of reliability in Modulus preamps.
1- 6922 AMPEREX, GERMANY, SHIELD WITH RING GETTER
Installed in Audible Illusions, series 2 and Audio Research SP8 and SP10 preamps in the mid 1980s. Very open-dimensional sonics. Excellent reliability but most tubes microphonic. One of the finest sounding preamplifier tubes ever made.
2- E88CC TUNGSRAM, HUNGARY, SHIELD WITH RING GETTER
Excellent sonics but somewhat microphonic. Good tube life. Very popular tube for current production Modulus preamps.
3- 7308 SIEMENS, GERMANY, SHIELD WITH RING GETTER, GOLD PINS
Somewhat microphonic but performs well in A.I. preamps. Excellent line-stage tube.
4- E88CC SIEMENS, GERMANY, SINGLE RING GETTER, GOLD PINS
Excellent sounding tube. Sounds like a cross between a good Amperex and Tungsram. Somewhat microphonic.
5- ECC88/6DJ8 AMPEREX BUGLE BOY, HOLLAND, SHIELD WITH RING GETTER
Hard to find and expensive. Excellent sonics with sweet top end. Manufactured for Amperex in the 1960s and early 1970s. Somewhat microphonic. Probably the finest sounding preamplifier tube ever made. *DO NOT confuse with "rebranded" Sylvania 6DJ8’s currently sold by Richardson Electronic.
6- ECC88/6922/7308 AMPEREX PQ, HOLLAND, SHIELD WITH D-RING GETTER, GOLD PINS
Rare. Very open-uniform sound. Somewhat microphonic. In mid-1980s Gold Aero was branding them 7308’s and selling them for $50 each. Excellent line stage tube." < [continues]
-From what I'd heard of the Tungsram, I bought a pair of red label- the red label is apparently a higher rated version than the yellow labelled and tried them briefly in the SP10. The brief try is because the SP10 has a deadly noisy gain pot that makes painful noise on about every third adjustment. I was amazed as the Tungsrams in the first phono poisitions were quiet, and without tube dampers not more microphonic than the Amperex 7308s. The sound was a bit thin and etched, but these were NOS 1969 tubes that were not burned in nor fully warmed up However, I could hear after 45 minutes that these tubes would develop. The Tungsram is supposed to be a Siemens copy and some comments I've read say they have some sonic similarites. I've read more than one comment from those that preferred the Tungsram to the Siemens. I have only three Siemens 6922s -unfortunately! that were packed away too deeply- and didn't compare them.
My plan was to use the Tungsrams in less important gain positions and as cathode followers etc., but I think they could well be better sounding than Sovteks as gain tubes- and with that reputation for toughness, I was sold and ordered 28- NOS red labelled E88CC at about $30 /pr (2006).
These are from 1969 to 1979 and were individually tested. If the figures are accurate, these tubes all measured between 1% and 5% matched sections. I only tried 4 of these and all were quiet and no more microphonic than the selected Amperex phono 7308s.
The Amperex A-frame ECC88 / 6DJ8 is a favourite of mine- that soundstage and effortless dynamics are fantastic- and though It's been awhile since I used them, my memory is, comparatively, the Tungsram E88CC is quiety and as as neutral, very good imaging, and nicely energetic and dynamic. The Amperex A-frame ECC88 / 6DJ8 is slightly more open, but I seem to always feel that 6DJ8s generally are more open than either the 6922 or 7308.
I've not used the pre-JJ Tesla E88CC, but their reputation is that they are reliable and good sounding, and my impression is that they supposed to be better sounding and more reliable than the current JJ version.
Cheers,
Bambi B
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Follow Ups
- Tungsram E88CC - Bambi B 08:15:38 08/12/08 (1)
- Thanks. How long have the Amperex lasted? - Frihed89 11:04:05 08/12/08 (0)
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