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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: That's Like Saying.... posted by Todd Krieger on November 11, 2005 at 14:00:56:
Noise shaping and dither are two entirely separate things. One is the addition of (perhaps shaped) noise before quantization.The other is a feedback method that shapes the spectrum of the quantization noise, itself.
Would you like to regale us, now, about which is which?
For some information on this issue, I have seen a presentation, but you won't like it, because was given at an AES convention by the person y'all imagine I am.
Interested or not?
While you're at it, what's the difference between an alias and a harmonic, sport?
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - An actual technical post/question, just for a change of pace.... - Commuteman 10:43:24 11/08/05 (173)
- For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - Mark Kelly 18:39:46 11/14/05 (63)
- Umm I was wrong. - Mark Kelly 15:11:43 11/15/05 (0)
- Re: For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - macaque 10:35:32 11/15/05 (59)
- Goodness, Gracious! - Silver Eared John 11:14:38 11/15/05 (58)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 12:10:44 11/15/05 (6)
- Why, a lot of good questions... - Silver Eared John 12:37:37 11/15/05 (5)
- Re: Why, a lot of good questions... - macaque 14:12:20 11/15/05 (4)
- Re: Why, a lot of good questions - Silver Eared John 15:48:02 11/15/05 (3)
- jneutron has been talking about a much lower threshold - Commuteman 11:22:25 11/18/05 (2)
- Threshold for what? - Silver Eared John 13:52:13 11/18/05 (1)
- Just got inta town...what'chall talkin bout? - jneutron 09:32:17 11/21/05 (0)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 11:51:21 11/15/05 (6)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 12:03:38 11/15/05 (5)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 12:15:04 11/15/05 (4)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 14:18:35 11/15/05 (3)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 15:17:45 11/15/05 (2)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 10:39:29 11/17/05 (1)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 11:14:51 11/17/05 (0)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Tom Dawson 11:34:01 11/15/05 (43)
- Now y'all hold on. - Silver Eared John 12:18:54 11/15/05 (42)
- Re: Now y'all hold on. - Tom Dawson 14:03:27 11/15/05 (41)
- Now, y'all hold on there. - Silver Eared John 14:06:24 11/15/05 (40)
- Re: Now, y'all hold on there. - Tom Dawson 22:21:05 11/15/05 (5)
- No, that's not the worst case, guy - Silver Eared John 12:53:17 11/16/05 (4)
- 'Fraid it is. Your argument fails due to its absolute dependence on extremely long spectral timing averaging requirement - Tom Dawson 07:16:49 11/23/05 (3)
- Y'all say? Well, y'all say, but no, it's not true - Silver Eared John 20:58:53 11/24/05 (2)
- What do you not understand about the potential interchannel sampling timing error of a transition of arbitrary size? - Tom Dawson 22:00:29 11/24/05 (1)
- There ain't none, that's what I understand. - Silver Eared John 11:12:57 11/25/05 (0)
- Re: Now, y'all hold on there. - macaque 14:36:54 11/15/05 (33)
- No, no, no - Silver Eared John 15:54:32 11/15/05 (32)
- Re: No, no, no - macaque 14:17:55 11/16/05 (31)
- Y'all missing something important there. - Silver Eared John 15:45:24 11/16/05 (30)
- Re: Y'all missing something important there. - macaque 17:23:49 11/16/05 (29)
- Why not just listen, then look… - jcox 20:16:20 11/18/05 (0)
- No, there isn't. - Silver Eared John 18:52:24 11/16/05 (27)
- Re: No, there isn't. - macaque 05:17:23 11/17/05 (26)
- Re: No, there isn't. - Todd Krieger 20:33:06 11/17/05 (23)
- Oh, more mythology - Silver Eared John 22:42:19 11/17/05 (22)
- Oh Really?? - Todd Krieger 01:50:32 11/18/05 (21)
- You're full of it. - Silver Eared John 13:59:04 11/18/05 (0)
- Re: Oh Really?? - macaque 06:58:07 11/18/05 (19)
- Noise? - Silver Eared John 14:00:09 11/18/05 (11)
- Re: Noise? - macaque 14:57:55 11/18/05 (10)
- Indeed. - Silver Eared John 16:14:12 11/18/05 (9)
- Re: Indeed. - macaque 17:40:26 11/18/05 (8)
- Re: Indeed. - Todd Krieger 23:21:00 11/18/05 (7)
- Re: Indeed. - Links to PDFs - macaque 07:14:25 11/19/05 (3)
- Outstanding! Thanks. (nt) - andy_c 13:13:59 11/20/05 (0)
- Links to PDFs - Thanks..... - Todd Krieger 21:41:32 11/19/05 (1)
- Re: Links to PDFs - Thanks..... - macaque 09:19:26 11/21/05 (0)
- Goodness, gracious, and you're talking like an expert? - Silver Eared John 01:20:10 11/19/05 (2)
- Re: Goodness, gracious, and you're talking like an expert? - macaque 07:48:24 11/19/05 (1)
- Well, there are some issues, I'm sure. - Silver Eared John 10:42:34 11/19/05 (0)
- Re: Oh Really?? - Todd Krieger 09:56:19 11/18/05 (6)
- Re: Oh Really?? - macaque 10:50:34 11/18/05 (5)
- Bit depth vs.analog stuff - Silver Eared John 11:50:06 11/22/05 (3)
- Re: Bit depth vs.analog stuff - john curl 10:38:20 11/24/05 (2)
- Bull pucky, plain and simple. - Silver Eared John 11:15:44 11/25/05 (1)
- Re: Bull pucky, plain and simple. - john curl 11:26:08 11/25/05 (0)
- I Think You Got It.... - Todd Krieger 22:55:44 11/18/05 (0)
- Re: No, there isn't. - Silver Eared John 16:16:55 11/17/05 (0)
- Testing capability of extyracting correlated info from noise - Jacques 07:04:16 11/17/05 (0)
- Re: For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - Dan Banquer 05:50:28 11/15/05 (1)
- Re: For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - Todd Krieger 08:53:27 11/15/05 (0)
- Hi Cman. - jneutron 12:21:17 11/14/05 (3)
- Re: Hi Cman. - Steve Eddy 19:59:50 11/14/05 (1)
- Re: Hi Cman. - jneutron 06:52:55 11/15/05 (0)
- Re: Hi Cman. - Todd Krieger 17:11:06 11/14/05 (0)
- Wow, what's this? A real technical question. - Silver Eared John 15:20:50 11/10/05 (93)
- Re: Wow, what's this? A real technical question. - Tom Dawson 07:31:05 11/11/05 (5)
- Now, y'all, I was talking about dither, not noise shaping - Silver Eared John 11:55:38 11/11/05 (4)
- That's Like Saying.... - Todd Krieger 14:00:56 11/11/05 (3)
- You're out of your mind, chief... - Silver Eared John 14:21:18 11/11/05 (2)
- Re: You're out of your mind, chief... - Todd Krieger 15:50:57 11/11/05 (1)
- Y'all got any point beyond misteaching the technology, kid - Silver Eared John 16:00:11 11/11/05 (0)
- Re: Wow, what's this? A real technical question. - Todd Krieger 16:49:14 11/10/05 (60)
- Y'all need to learn about the frequency domain, lad. - Silver Eared John 19:02:17 11/10/05 (59)
- Re: Y'all need to learn about the frequency domain, lad. - Todd Krieger 22:24:14 11/10/05 (58)
- Y'all trying to shift attention, eh? - Silver Eared John 23:09:13 11/10/05 (57)
- Time's Up..... - Todd Krieger 23:55:21 11/10/05 (56)
- Y'all just had to butt in with misinformation, then, eh? - Silver Eared John 11:45:58 11/11/05 (55)
- Let The Readers Determine That.... - Todd Krieger 19:43:57 11/12/05 (54)
- It's not a popularity contest, slick - Silver Eared John 19:54:15 11/12/05 (53)
- If it was... - mkuller 17:13:58 11/13/05 (52)
- Well, y'all know - Silver Eared John 17:43:09 11/13/05 (51)
- well, consarn it all, ain't it the goldarndest confoundinest - tunenut 11:14:37 11/14/05 (0)
- Well, Curl is right, you know... - mkuller 10:51:39 11/14/05 (4)
- Oh Please! - Dan Banquer 11:03:43 11/14/05 (3)
- That's the facts, Jack... - mkuller 11:34:50 11/14/05 (2)
- Re: These are the facts Mike. - Dan Banquer 11:43:08 11/14/05 (1)
- Hey Dan!!! - Todd Krieger 19:28:39 11/14/05 (0)
- Re: Well, y'all know - john curl 09:33:18 11/14/05 (44)
- Re: Well, y'all know - Steve Eddy 09:57:06 11/14/05 (43)
- LOL!... - mkuller 10:53:34 11/14/05 (42)
- Grab a clue. - Steve Eddy 15:09:01 11/14/05 (4)
- Re: Grab a clue. - john curl 20:53:37 11/14/05 (3)
- Re: Grab a clue. - Steve Eddy 21:48:41 11/14/05 (2)
- Re: Grab a clue. - john curl 15:29:14 11/16/05 (1)
- Re: Grab a clue. - Steve Eddy 16:48:11 11/16/05 (0)
- What sex act y'all on about? - Silver Eared John 11:41:47 11/14/05 (36)
- Re: What sex act y'all on about? - jneutron 12:16:07 11/14/05 (35)
- Afraid of? - mkuller 13:53:24 11/14/05 (34)
- Re: Afraid of? - Steve Eddy 19:06:59 11/14/05 (33)
- Rules? - mkuller 14:09:02 11/16/05 (32)
- Re: Rules? - Steve Eddy 18:57:12 11/16/05 (0)
- Hey, Steve - Silver Eared John 15:54:35 11/16/05 (30)
- Waaait a minute, here... - mkuller 14:39:16 11/17/05 (24)
- Ok, y'all know about digital recording and sampling, then? - Silver Eared John 19:23:29 11/17/05 (23)
- Ignorance..... - Todd Krieger 20:42:47 11/20/05 (0)
- Got any evidence for this? - mkuller 09:10:58 11/18/05 (16)
- Evasion noted. - Silver Eared John 14:09:07 11/18/05 (6)
- So you make up a lie... - mkuller 16:47:22 11/19/05 (5)
- Evasion again noted. - Silver Eared John 00:56:10 11/20/05 (4)
- Who are you talking about? - mkuller 11:31:40 11/20/05 (3)
- You - Silver Eared John 14:06:06 11/20/05 (2)
- Just crawl away... - mkuller 11:33:27 11/21/05 (1)
- Byeee. Keep crawling - Silver Eared John 13:37:31 11/21/05 (0)
- Well, I'm trying to find out - Silver Eared John 11:35:00 11/18/05 (8)
- So you admit... - mkuller 11:50:25 11/18/05 (7)
- Quoting you from above in this thread - Silver Eared John 14:13:01 11/18/05 (6)
- Re: Quoting you from above in this thread - john curl 17:34:38 11/18/05 (5)
- Y'all like to call names, don't y'all? - Silver Eared John 01:22:24 11/19/05 (4)
- Re: Y'all like to call names, don't y'all? - john curl 09:22:52 11/19/05 (3)
- Yep, y'all just like to call names. - Silver Eared John 10:43:21 11/19/05 (2)
- Hypocrite - look in the mirror... LOL!... - mkuller 13:42:12 11/20/05 (1)
- I can. Can y'all, or do you wince when you look? - Silver Eared John 18:12:54 11/22/05 (0)
- Re: Ok, y'all know about digital recording and sampling, then? - john curl 22:56:04 11/17/05 (4)
- Re: Ok, y'all know about digital recording and sampling, then? - Todd Krieger 21:29:24 11/20/05 (0)
- Y'all still confused, I see - Silver Eared John 11:33:46 11/18/05 (2)
- Re: Y'all still confused, I see - john curl 19:52:22 11/19/05 (1)
- Y'all didn't know him at all, I hear... - Silver Eared John 00:57:05 11/20/05 (0)
- Who's stalkin' who, slick?...(nt) - mkuller 12:10:55 11/17/05 (0)
- Re: Hey, Steve - Steve Eddy 19:11:33 11/16/05 (0)
- Re: Hey, Steve - john curl 18:19:32 11/16/05 (2)
- Hey, John... - mkuller 09:13:07 11/18/05 (1)
- Re: Hey, John... - john curl 11:56:23 11/18/05 (0)
- Thanks. So does that mean... - Commuteman 15:51:31 11/10/05 (25)
- Re: Thanks. So does that mean... - Dan Banquer 04:27:56 11/11/05 (14)
- No, Dan, no... - Silver Eared John 11:47:01 11/11/05 (11)
- Re: No, Dan, no... - Dan Banquer 13:01:15 11/11/05 (10)
- Re: No, Dan, no... - morricab 13:50:35 11/11/05 (4)
- Re: No, Dan, no... - Dan Banquer 14:19:34 11/11/05 (3)
- Dan, I can't get what he's saying... - Silver Eared John 14:24:36 11/11/05 (2)
- Re: Dan, I can't get what he's saying... - morricab 08:39:58 11/14/05 (0)
- Re: Dan, I can't get what he's saying... - Dan Banquer 14:31:13 11/11/05 (0)
- The posters here are distinguishing between distortion and quantization noise... - Silver Eared John 13:16:15 11/11/05 (4)
- Re: The posters here are distinguishing between distortion and quantization noise... - Dan Banquer 14:26:08 11/11/05 (3)
- Well, I'm not really going to argue... - Silver Eared John 14:34:11 11/11/05 (2)
- You're not going to argue... - mkuller 11:02:31 11/15/05 (1)
- I see y'all still stalking... - Silver Eared John 11:19:25 11/15/05 (0)
- dither is not masking, and todays dacs are more than 16 bit linear - jcox 08:07:27 11/11/05 (1)
- Good thing y'all put quotes around that '24 bits' - Silver Eared John 11:48:35 11/11/05 (0)
- Re: Thanks. So does that mean... - Todd Krieger 22:47:13 11/10/05 (0)
- Well, no, err, sorta ... kinda... - Silver Eared John 19:05:20 11/10/05 (7)
- Re: Well, no, err, sorta ... kinda... - Dan Banquer 03:57:06 11/11/05 (2)
- I've seen, once, about 120dB... - Silver Eared John 11:49:59 11/11/05 (1)
- Re: I've seen, once, about 120dB... - morricab 13:54:09 11/11/05 (0)
- Re: Well, no, err, sorta ... kinda... - Todd Krieger 22:32:19 11/10/05 (3)
- Really, now? - Silver Eared John 23:07:41 11/10/05 (2)
- you are correct - tunenut 16:10:25 11/10/05 (0)
- Re: An actual technical post/question, just for a change of pace.... - Todd Krieger 21:57:47 11/09/05 (7)
- Hmmm... - Commuteman 13:46:04 11/10/05 (6)
- Re: Hmmm... - Todd Krieger 17:14:49 11/10/05 (0)
- Re: Hmmm... - Tom Dawson 15:52:53 11/10/05 (4)
- I agree completely.... - Commuteman 16:16:25 11/10/05 (3)
- Re: I agree completely....2 or more channels adds another aspect - macaque 06:34:13 11/11/05 (1)
- But the limit is small, and it's a noise limit, not a "step" limit - Silver Eared John 11:32:07 11/16/05 (0)
- The problem... - Silver Eared John 19:26:48 11/10/05 (0)
- 8-bit wav examples here... - jcox 20:08:00 11/09/05 (0)
- Re: An actual technical post/question, just for a change of pace.... - Tom Dawson 13:32:24 11/09/05 (0)
- Re: Just did google search for "dither" - this is all I found...... - geoffkait 09:24:34 11/09/05 (0)
Follow Ups
- You're out of your mind, chief... - Silver Eared John 14:21:18 11/11/05 (2)
- Re: You're out of your mind, chief... - Todd Krieger 15:50:57 11/11/05 (1)
- Y'all got any point beyond misteaching the technology, kid - Silver Eared John 16:00:11 11/11/05 (0)
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