Speaker Asylum

General speaker questions for audio and home theater.

Return to Speaker Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

Sound stage

86.41.216.190
Posted on June 5, 2024 at 08:17:10
mbrierley
Audiophile

Posts: 104
Location: Wexford
Joined: December 30, 2021
 Hi all. I appreciate I have only put about 3 hours burn in on my new speakers, but where do you fellow inmates usually position your speakers for best sound stage?

I find that, despite being double the size, the new boxes have a narrower sound stage than the old. Its vertically taller but not as wide.

I have positioned them with the front baffle the same distance from the rear wall as the optimum position for the old boxes and centre of bass cone same distance from side wall as the old.

Do ye find more/less toe in or widening the distance works for widening sound stage? The speakers are so big, its virtually impossible for the centre not to be quite broad.

This is all in context though. They are that new that in a month, the sound stage might spill into the neighbours house.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: Sound stage, posted on June 5, 2024 at 10:01:34
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4592
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 Good morning-
If you check the FAQ section of the AA site, there is a whole section on speaker placement with great links-

Having said this, placement and optimal positioning is a conversation between you, your ears, the room and the speakers -
Some speakers benefit from side wall proximity, others lose their capacity to throw a wide sound stage in the same position-

I would also encourage that you explore the search option, as some one else may well have had a similar situation with the speakers you have bought-
Happy Listening

 

Why not consult your DIY site, posted on June 5, 2024 at 10:18:28
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 39092
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 where I found this link for speaker placement. There was a suggestion as to toe-in.

 

RE: Sound stage, posted on June 5, 2024 at 13:09:56
JCarney
Audiophile

Posts: 503
Location: Colorado
Joined: January 12, 2003
 Only 3 hours burn in so far? If that is the case, it really won't matter where you put them until they break in considerably more. The mechanical suspension (spider), voice coil and surround all have to loosen up a bit before the drivers start to sound good and integrated. Then there is the crossover and its parts that need to break in and that can take 200-400 hours. More parts in the crossover take longer to break in. A 300uf cap will take longer than say a 20uf cap. Be patient, play music constantly, does not have to be loud but audible, and pay attention to what you hear. Then one day, everything will just fall into place and the process will be done with, then you can mess around with position to get what you are looking for.

Best of luck,
JCarney

 

RE: Sound stage, posted on June 6, 2024 at 05:48:13
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2494
Joined: September 27, 2004
 I agree that there's little to be gained with placement experimentation until the speakers are well broken in. However, once this has been achieved, careful placement is essential to achieve best sound. This is quite likely to be different from earlier speakers, even if they are of the same "type". Different types (horns, els, omnis, etc) are even less likely to be good in earlier speakers' positions.

Placement includes distances from side walls, the wall behind the speakers and the listening position, toe-in (likely to be the most important for good imaging), maybe tilt and type of floor connection - spikes / isolation feet. Not easy and don't give up or resort to "room correction DSP" - do the job properly!

 

Would be nice if you mentioned what the speakers are..., posted on June 6, 2024 at 06:06:40
Ozzy
Audiophile

Posts: 7619
Joined: September 21, 1999
 NT
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill

 

I'm thinkin', posted on June 6, 2024 at 06:48:36
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 39092
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002

 

Large, wide-baffle speakers . . ., posted on June 6, 2024 at 14:54:47
Brian H P
Audiophile

Posts: 1433
Location: Oregon
Joined: December 18, 2012
 . . . can probably never image as precisely as smaller standmount types or narrow towers, simply because their off-axis response falls off at a lower frequency. Less dispersion at the high frequencies where directional cues live, and probably more diffraction errors.

The positive trade-off is that those big woofers can move air and fill your house with sound in a way no little speaker can hope to. Big, clean, effortless bass, all the way down. The neighbors will be calling the cops long before you hear any distortion.

So fiddle with separation, toe-in, and proximity to walls until they sound best to you. As others have stated, the speakers may need some break-in time; so may your ears and expectations. Then, immerse yourself in your favorite BIG music and be happy!

 

RE: Sound stage, posted on June 21, 2024 at 00:00:02
Leo loves music
Audiophile

Posts: 217
Joined: October 14, 2021
 To get good sound stage, you need to move the speakers into room.

 

Several variables, posted on June 21, 2024 at 09:46:57
Inmate51
Industry Professional

Posts: 2827
Location: Dallas, TX
Joined: August 12, 2022
 Two of the primary variables are the dispersion characteristics of the speakers, and the absorption and diffusion characteristics of your room. Another is your hearing, which varies with direction. Although, with normal hearing, it's typically less variable (from person to person) than speakers and rooms.

One inmate here wrote that it's a dance. I like that analogy.

"Then there is the crossover and its parts that need to break in and that can take 200-400 hours."

...By which time you will have completely forgotten what they sounded like when new. And, your brain will have adapted to the sound, and will have discovered the "warts" as well as the welcome qualities. ;)

*********

We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.

 

RE: Several variables, posted on June 21, 2024 at 10:03:36
mbrierley
Audiophile

Posts: 104
Location: Wexford
Joined: December 30, 2021
 I'm now at the point where neither speaker reveals more detail by pointing myself directly at it as opposed to dead centre, which is a very good starting point. I've also found the right tilt angle to liven up the tweeter without it being too bright.

Agreed though. It'll be at least 5 months and 100's of minor changes before they reveal themselves fully. I'm just impatient. I'm working off the cardas placement though the suggested distance from the side walls just isn't practical. They'd be in the fire...

Despite my age, I'm lucky to have ludicrously good hearing and missing details in music is corrected by speaker position as opposed to bad hearing.

 

I heard your thoughts, posted on July 5, 2024 at 08:27:30
mbrierley
Audiophile

Posts: 104
Location: Wexford
Joined: December 30, 2021
 Troels Gravenson 3WC15. Not a commercial box.

In any event, despite the lack of burn in, I hazard that I've found my Nirvana. Traditionally I would position the centre of the woofer circa 3ft from the side wall with little toe in.

These are positioned now with same distance from side wall with about a 15 degree toe in angle and WOW... I realise the snap, crackle and pop of mid and hi frequencies were relying on the sidewall reflections. The sound is far more coherent and detailed pointing directly at me without loss of sound stage. I'll gladly sacrifice a little sparkle for the extra 2-3 layers of detail.

Heres a funny one for ye- I had ChatGPT figure out the correct angle of tilt for me to achieve the right time alignment and found I had actually arrived at it in listening tests anyway!

 

AI working for you :) -nt, posted on July 5, 2024 at 14:43:21
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 39092
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002

 

RE: Sound stage, posted on July 6, 2024 at 13:56:15
pbarach
Audiophile

Posts: 3405
Location: Ohio
Joined: June 22, 2008
 As others have sound, placement for sound stage depends on many variables--there is no single correct formula.

But for my setups, I always seek a solid center image as a starting point, and then I experiment with toe-in to get the imaging where I like it.

One way to test for and adjust for a solid center image is to use a mono recording with a single female voice or a violin.

 

RE: AI working for you :) -nt, posted on July 8, 2024 at 05:36:31
mbrierley
Audiophile

Posts: 104
Location: Wexford
Joined: December 30, 2021
 I like to think I was ahead of it with the naked ear!

 

Deep and glorious bass, posted on July 19, 2024 at 09:36:57
mbrierley
Audiophile

Posts: 104
Location: Wexford
Joined: December 30, 2021
 Not long ago I posted about the realistic need for subs given that my historic experience of bass was at the expense of mids, hi's and detail. My new boxes seemed to be lacking in any bass to report on, which is a bit odd considering their 15" woofers.

Contrary to contemporary logic, moving them closer to the back wall actually diminished the bass even further. Bringing them further away from the back wall has delivered up ludicrous amounts of grin inducing deep, deep taut bass while losing none of the mids and hi's.

For reference, the speakers (middle of the driver) are 1mtr from the side walls and nearly 2 meters from the back wall.

Who'd have thunk? What a revelation

 

Page processed in 0.026 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]