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New Speakers or New Amplifier?

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Posted on February 26, 2024 at 12:57:11

Matthew J1
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 6, 2013

Hello all. Looking for advice.

My system is an Innous Server, Chord Qutest DAC, Goldpoint Attneuator, Kurashima 45 Set Amp, and Lowther Alerion rear loaded horn speakers. The link is to a review of the Alerions as many may not have heard of them (as I recall when I purchased from Jon VerHalen, my speakers were in fact the test units).

This set up is to me anyway, about as good as it gets listening to jazz trios, quintets, and even some of Duke Ellington's larger band offerings.

It is good, if not always optimal for solo classical piano, chamber music and voice recordings.

Where it leaves much wanting is symphony recordings. On many recordings one might almost think someone had cut the power during the more quiet movements.

For example the other night listening to Mahler's 6th (Deutsche Grammaphon Weiner Philharmoniker) my volume selection was fine for the opening Allegro and Scherzo. But then when the Andante movement started I could not hear a thing.

As there are good number of what appear to be more efficient speakers or powerful amplifiers around the same price, I am conflicted as to which way to go.

Wondering if any of you have experienced similar challenges and how resolved. Thank you.

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0307/lowthe

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I hope Matthew Jl is alright ;-) ...........nt

Cut-Throat

11:12:18 03/04/24

RE: I hope Matthew Jl is alright ;-) ...........nt

Matthew J1

13:21:02 03/04/24

cawson@onetel.com

08:04:26 02/27/24

...

Show full thread outline!

I hope Matthew Jl is alright ;-) ...........nt

Cut-Throat

11:12:18 03/04/24

RE: I hope Matthew Jl is alright ;-) ...........nt

Matthew J1

13:21:02 03/04/24

cawson@onetel.com

08:04:26 02/27/24

lokie

05:57:35 03/05/24

RE: New Speakers or New Amplifier?

Jack G

05:16:40 02/27/24

he's got Lowthers!

mhardy6647

05:49:46 02/27/24

RE: he's got Lowthers!

Jack G

06:48:25 02/27/24

My apologies, Jack G. I had no idea there were any Lowthers that insensitive! (nt)

mhardy6647

18:05:31 02/27/24

It's the 10dB shelf filter ...

Paul Joppa

20:41:19 02/27/24

RE: New Speakers or New Amplifier?

Cut-Throat

15:16:00 02/26/24

RE: New Speakers or New Amplifier?, posted on February 26, 2024 at 15:16:00

Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 18449
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
Since: May 16, 2021

I definitely vote for different speakers. I love the 45 SET amp and have been using them for over 20 years. Currently I have Jeff Korneff Design Monoblocks.... Don't get rid of your 45 amps, you'll regret it.

I use Oris Horns - The Orphean System. which are 115db and are driven by the Korneff 45 Amps. I have Klipschorn Bass Bins which are driven by Hypex Class 'D' amps. So with Bi-Amping, I never run out of power.... So, consider Bi-Amping and the Oris Horns (Orphean Model).

Orphean - See Link Below. BTW - Where in the Midwest are you located? I'm in Minneapolis.

http://www.bd-design.nl/contents/en-us/d71.html

RE: New Speakers or New Amplifier?, posted on February 27, 2024 at 05:16:40

Jack G
Audiophile

Posts: 9752
Joined: September 24, 1999

Lots of possibilities, and I'm sure you've thought of them already. You don't mention your price range.
1) you could add a powered sub, if feasible. That would certainly extend the FR of your speakers (much needed), and take much of the load off of your 45s. This will also help with dynamics.
2) Get more efficient speakers. You'd be hard pressed to find some that didn't go deeper in the bass.
3) get a more powerful SET, or a low powered PP amp. I've lived with SETs for over 10 years, including custom type 10 SETs. 1.5 glorious watts. Even with 100db speakers, they felt somewhat limited. That will help with dynamics, but won't solve your bass issue though.
Or, any combination of the above. If you want to listen to classical, you're going to need deeper bass, and more dynamics. It seems that your speakers are the most limiting factor. I would at least address that issue first, then *maybe* the amp.
That's my ramble for the day. :-)
Good luck.
Jack

he's got Lowthers! , posted on February 27, 2024 at 05:49:46
mhardy6647 Audiophile Posts: 16188 Location: New England Joined: October 12, 1999 Contributor Since: October 23, 2016	Yes, there are sensitive loudspeakers that'll go deeper, but I don't think he'll find more sensitive loudspeakers without going to theater horns. I mean, not that that would be a bad route with a 45 amp... ;) 45 is definitely a little borderline for fullrange amplification of big music. I (FWIW) consider 2A3 a little more practical -- even with biggish loudspeakers. :) all the best, mrh

RE: he's got Lowthers! , posted on February 27, 2024 at 06:48:25
Jack G Audiophile Posts: 9752 Joined: September 24, 1999	They are 93 db/w/m, according to the review linked in his post. That's really not what one would call super efficient. Plus, they only go down to 70 hz. He could get some Zu speakers that are a lot more efficient, and have deeper bass. Just an example, there are a lot of options, depending on budget. Jack

Speakers, posted on February 27, 2024 at 08:04:26

cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2494
Joined: September 27, 2004

Much as I admire Lowther's use of single drivers, I have never considered they match the overall performance of a good 2 or 3 way system.

I think you are happy with your electronics but the limitation is the output from your amp. I'd look towards changing the Lowthers for a good quality full-range floor-standing horn system of even more sensitivity than the Lowthers. My money would go for a pair of used Avantgarde Unos or Duos depending on your budget.

I've been using AGs since 2002 after Stereophile voted the Unos as their Speaker of the Year following a fantastic review in their mag. I switched from big active ATC 50s and what a huge smile those Unos pout on my face!

I bought them new and sold 17 years later with not a penny loss! Then I spotted a pair of circa 2006 Duos at a bargain price. Most recently I bought new Duo XDs but I'd suggest perhaps Duos of pre-XD vintage would offer best value.

With twin 10" bass drivers (self-powered bass section), mid and top horns with 104 dB sensitivity, they need only a few watts to do justice to your Mahler, or Ellington, or anyone else.

My apologies, Jack G. I had no idea there were any Lowthers that insensitive! (nt), posted on February 27, 2024 at 18:05:31
mhardy6647 Audiophile Posts: 16188 Location: New England Joined: October 12, 1999 Contributor Since: October 23, 2016	enn tee all the best, mrh

It's the 10dB shelf filter ..., posted on February 27, 2024 at 20:41:19
Paul Joppa Industry Professional Posts: 7320 Location: Seattle, WA Joined: April 23, 2001	... that cuts the screechy lower treble. Without the filter, you can have 103dB (above 2kHz). Many highly-regarded "efficient" fullranges have this issue. Few are much better than 92dB/W/m in the piston range.

I hope Matthew Jl is alright ;-) ...........nt, posted on March 4, 2024 at 11:12:18
Cut-Throat Audiophile Posts: 18449 Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area Joined: September 2, 2000 Contributor Since: May 16, 2021	nt

RE: I hope Matthew Jl is alright ;-) ...........nt, posted on March 4, 2024 at 13:21:02

Matthew J1
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 6, 2013

Hello all. Sorry for so long replying.

In fact the reason behind this question coming to mind now is I am in the process of moving from my home of 24 years to a smaller place out west. Downsizing is proving to be more work than anticipated.

Thank you for the good points. Although the Alerions were conceived as a smaller horn option for space constraints, they are fairly large from the perspective of planning a move. Selling them and getting new, more sensitive speakers makes sense. Will look into the suggested replacements.

One point about the Alerions: with the update from DX55 to DX65, I think the sensitivity is somewhat better than what is reported in the linked review. Clearly not sensitive enough, however.

Now I just have to figure out how best to safely crate my SET amplifier before handing it over to the movers.

RE: Speakers, posted on March 5, 2024 at 05:57:35
lokie Audiophile Posts: 2003 Location: Georgia, USA Joined: January 28, 2003	DIY another pair of speakers. It's not hard as you "outsource" the hardest tasks. You'll have $500 into the equivalent of a 99db $4k speaker. Keep the 45 and get another PP in the 15-20 watt range: 6L6 or el84 etc.. Swap between the two depending on the music Live happily ever after with no wants.

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