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Did you ever have to make up your mind...

96.8.132.190
Posted on May 28, 2024 at 10:04:36
creativepart
Audiophile

Posts: 1906
Location: Spring Branch, Texas
Joined: March 1, 2004
 I've been all in with "separates" but some of the new All-In-One Amp/Streamer/Dac devices kind of turn your head.

I've got a great sounding system. Naim Supernait3 Integrated, SoTM SMS 200 Ultra Neo streamer, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC. Does everything I want it to do. Over the years I've tried different amps, I've been through 3 major DAC purchases and I look at all manner of different streamers all the time.

But reading about and seeing videos about NAD, Naim and Cambridge Audio all-in-ones makes one wonder. Am I being silly about these expensive separate devices. For instance a Cambridge Audio EVO 150 would replace all of that gear and provide even more features and connections.

But would it sound as good??

I worry that the streamer would be just so-so and the DAC a big step down and the amp too pedestrian sounding.

I know the answer is to try it and see. But there are no local sellers and I hate going the buy it and return it route for $3000 gear.

Anyone else had this dilemma? If so, what did you do? How did it turn out?

 

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Now you've done it! , posted on May 28, 2024 at 14:12:06
E-Stat
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Posts: 39092
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002





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Earworm time!

Crutchfield may be your answer as they carry the Cambridge Evo and offer 60 day returns.

 

Same here., posted on May 28, 2024 at 15:48:12
Tromatic
Audiophile

Posts: 2764
Location: Portland
Joined: July 27, 2000
 I got to home demo a used Hegel Röst. Took about five minutes to decide it was a keeper, and I'm now considering letting the rest go and stepping up to the Hegel 120. It's a toe-tapper, and gets me doing my pathetic imitation of dancing around the living room.

Not heard the Cambridge, but I've heard the NAD M10 V2 and it is also very good. Integrateds have gotten very good.

 

RE: Did you ever have to make up your mind..., posted on May 28, 2024 at 16:09:25
ABliss
Audiophile

Posts: 1546
Joined: March 16, 2001
Contributor
  Since: August 3, 2002
 After I retried, I started a downsizing binge. Sold off all my vinyl and turntables, got rid of HT and all its extra crap except for the sub.

Got the main system down to my power amp, a dac/preamp, and a streamer .
That lasted about a year before I started to get board with less boxes to play with, less to upgrade.
Now I am back to separate dac, tube preamp and amp, again.
It's just more fun.

 

RE: Did you ever have to make up your mind..., posted on May 29, 2024 at 04:49:53
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2494
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > Am I being silly about these expensive separate devices

> But would it sound as good??

I moved away from separates to an all-in-one about 6 years ago and no regrets at all. I needed an exceptionally good one to match my costly speakers. After buying or borrowing several amps (some were all-in-ones), I went for the latest and best NAD offering - the M33.

When you look at a pile of separates and consider what they do and what's inside, you realise the true advantage of these all-in-ones. You have had to buy 4 or 5 enclosures (often very costly), each box has a power supply and all are connected by a snake-pit of over-priced cables!

A DAC board is very small and likewise a streamer module. They need miniscule current, so these can easily be housed in an integrated amp without spoiling the performance of any part. On the contrary, doing away with cables and their plugs and sockets can offer a positive advantage.

The M33 uses a high quality DAC from ESS and uses the exceptionally good and user-friendly BluOS streamer and app. It uses the top-of-the-line ESS 9038PRO DAC.

Although I'm delighted with the M33 (winner of so many awards - see Stereophile review and awards list). I'm currently contemplating an "all-in-two" solution, taking the power amp out and getting the new M66 as a streamer / DAC / Dirac Live / DLBC / preamp, plus a power amp.

Some all-in-ones are not true hi-fi but there are very good ones around if you look carefully and not influenced by Youtube videos from self-appointed experts, who know little or no more than you, and are likely to be funded by the brand they are singing the praises of!

 

RE: Did you ever have to make up your mind..., posted on May 29, 2024 at 07:49:01
Grinnell
Audiophile

Posts: 717
Location: Front Range
Joined: December 23, 2007
 With separates you have more opportunities to upgrade.

 

On the Other Hand ..., posted on May 29, 2024 at 09:14:20
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2494
Joined: September 27, 2004
 > With separates you have more opportunities to upgrade.

On the other hand, with separates, there's always a weakest link that's due for an upgrade and holding back the performance potential of the other boxes.

An all-in-one is carefully designed so that all parts are of comparable quality and are designed / chosen to work in perfect harmony with each other part. After a few years, the whole lot can be upgraded to a higher level if needed - most likely after new speakers are bought.

 

RE: On the Other Hand ..., posted on May 29, 2024 at 09:27:30
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 47562
Location: Maidenhead Grid Square DM79
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 "On the other hand, with separates, there's always a weakest link that's due for an upgrade and holding back the performance potential of the other boxes."

On the other hand, with an all-in-one system, the weakest link is the ENTIRE system! Throw the whole box out and start over if it's not to your liking or no longer state of the art. And we continue to spar this point ;-)

With separates you can always upgrade and swap out one component without throwing out the entire kitchen sink.




 

I could live with an all-in-one system..., posted on May 29, 2024 at 16:10:04
PaulN
Audiophile

Posts: 1417
Joined: January 13, 2000
 but I don't want to. Like you, I settled on a Holo DAC, an L2 May and then added a Holo Red streamer and a Serene. An all-in-one may well sound great, but it isn't going to sound as good as that stack, no-way, no-how. And these days I don't think about it anymore. I just listen and smile. All day long.

 

+1 ............. Yup ! ....................nt, posted on May 29, 2024 at 16:51:19
Cut-Throat
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Posts: 18449
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 16, 2021
 nt



 

+2., posted on May 30, 2024 at 09:08:21
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3433
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 4, 2000
 NT

 

I cannot think of , posted on May 30, 2024 at 10:00:54
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 39092
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 a single manufacturer that does *everything* I prefer sonically, is as flexible or as cost effective.

And for me, space is a non-issue. I do, however, tuck some gear away out of sight in closets with two systems.

 

Even if space is an issue...., posted on May 31, 2024 at 09:14:18
AbeCollins
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Posts: 47562
Location: Maidenhead Grid Square DM79
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  Since: February 2, 2002
 ...which it is to some extent in my small Salamander S20 rack, all I need is a Source, DAC, Preamp, and Amp. They don't take up THAT MUCH space. I still have room for the turntable on top of the rack if I choose to use it.



 

RE: Even if space is an issue...., posted on May 31, 2024 at 13:10:46
dbphd
Audiophile

Posts: 1739
Location: Montecito, CA
Joined: September 6, 2006
 Abe, the attractiveness of your setup in the Salamander rack led me down a path I wish I hadn't followed. I can't decide whether to sell or keep the Ayre gear I set aside when I went to the KEF LS60 with a pair of KC62 subs -- I don't want to regret selling it, but it seems the rational thing to do. I know I want to sell the Salamander rack that's like yours only larger and not as attractive.

The LS60 setup is very convenient and the sound is superb. But I admit a rack of Ayre gear is handsome, so I may set one up again using my vintage Ayre C5xeMP disc player* with the QX-5 Twenty DAC, KX-5 Twenty preamp, and VX-5 Twenty amp. I think everything could fit below the 85" TV in a long low rack with glass shelves. (*The Ayre DX-5 DSD is with the LS60.)

 

There's always the floor!, posted on May 31, 2024 at 14:25:30
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 39092
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Stands make it easy to vacuum underneath.

 

You old guys..., posted on May 31, 2024 at 14:54:07
Ozzie
Audiophile

Posts: 3894
Joined: August 1, 2002
 ... and your black and white pre MTV videos.

BTW, I thought about that song at the beginning of the thread also.

 

That's the way the world was back then... -nt, posted on May 31, 2024 at 15:31:14
E-Stat
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Posts: 39092
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002

 

RE: Even if space is an issue...., posted on May 31, 2024 at 18:29:11
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 47562
Location: Maidenhead Grid Square DM79
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
If you enjoy a variety of gear I wouldn't downsize too much! I have used much larger racks in the past and it was fun filling it with equipment and being able switch the system w/o moving equipment around. I was in a downsizing mood so hence the current tiny S20 rack.

P.S. I still have my twice-as-tall Salamander S40 rack in the storage room. It looks just like the S20 but twice the height. It's a good height if you have a turntable on top.





 

RE: Even if space is an issue...., posted on May 31, 2024 at 19:59:44
dbphd
Audiophile

Posts: 1739
Location: Montecito, CA
Joined: September 6, 2006
 I think my Salamander is the S40 rack with casters. Before the Thorens TD 124 was moved to the living room with the LS60 it resided atop the S40. Now it sits atop a small rack that holds an Ayre DX-5 DSD stacked with a P5. It reminds me of Abe's small rack that I so admired. The turntable is too low, but it's very rarely used and looks great.

 

RE: Did you ever have to make up your mind..., posted on June 2, 2024 at 14:16:31
Freo-1
Audiophile

Posts: 1377
Location: Florida
Joined: June 14, 2008
 Had separates for many years. Several years back, auditioned a Devialet Expert setup. Found out it actually sounded better than my expensive separates.

The all in one solution performance provided by the Devialet Expert Pro has worked so well, have not felt any need to update the units. The Speaker Active Matching (SAM) functionality for supported speakers works as advertised.

To me, it has been well worth it to get a all in one solution for loudspeaker playback.


" Don't look back. Something may be gaining on you"

Satchel Paige

 

RE: You perfectly make sense, posted on June 8, 2024 at 16:35:12
kkak66
Audiophile

Posts: 652
Location: Florida
Joined: April 25, 2000
 I myself use separates, for the last 25 years. I've 4 amps, PS Audio S300, Musical Design Hybrid, VTL ST 85 tube amp and an Aragon 4004 MK 2. Besides 3 pre amps, VTL 5.5. Pass Labs XP20 and a custom tube pre. Too much stuff to be honest. But I like separates overall.

 

RE: Did you ever have to make up your mind..., posted on June 13, 2024 at 15:47:42
dbphd
Audiophile

Posts: 1739
Location: Montecito, CA
Joined: September 6, 2006
 I think I've made up my mind -- sort of.

Reluctance to sell my KEF Reference 1s led to a setup comprised on an Ayre C5xeMP and AX-7e that sounded quite good. So I decided to reinstall the Ayre DX-5 DSD, QX-5 Twenty, and KX-5 Twenty in the Salamander rack with the VX-5 Twenty on the floor between the speakers. I may also reinstall the pair of Velodyne HGS-15s with bass management. If I decide to sell anything I'll sell everything, and rely on the very satisfying Sony HT A9 for audio in the HT. The Ayre C5, and KEF LS60 augmented with a pair of KC62s do audio in the living room.

 

RE: Did you ever have to make up your mind..., posted on June 21, 2024 at 20:23:48
dbphd
Audiophile

Posts: 1739
Location: Montecito, CA
Joined: September 6, 2006
 I've changed my mind yet again, but perhaps this is it. KEF Reference 1s are used with vintage Ayre C5xeMP and AX-7e, connections are balanced analog. Sony HT A9 is used with Oppo 205 and Roon, both via HDMI. Ayre DX-5 DSD and Roon are used with LS60 via eARC from a Sony TV.

 

Round black towers in the corner, posted on July 10, 2024 at 17:03:32
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Are those bass traps? If so, why two? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

 

Exactly, posted on July 10, 2024 at 22:55:09
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 39092
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 There are also a number of 14" traps in the back of the room as well. It took that many to provide pretty linear third octave response in the bottom four octaves. Those are DIY made some twenty years ago. The diffusers add to the room treatments for more precise imaging. More pics in gallery.

 

Nice work, posted on July 15, 2024 at 14:43:45
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 It looked like the bass traps were professional, not DIY. It's not easy getting fabric to go around a form without wrinkles.

Bass traps made a huge difference in my room, although I bought mine. They're triangles that fit in the corner.

 

Thx! -nt, posted on July 15, 2024 at 14:44:39
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 39092
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002

 

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