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Over the years, Ive been fortunate to put together a very revealing 2 channel analog system. Its been an awakening.
Moble Fidelity, Analog Productions put out great pressings that my system reproduces impressively.
I recently inherited my friends old '70s, '80s vinyl which has been well cared for.
Put Asia's 1st lp on. Sounded like it was recorded in an echo chamber. Pulled it off 1/2 way into 1st song. Then tried lps by Pretenders, Supertramp, Utopia. My system brought out the ugly in them.
Then tried a'70s MoFi Fleetwood Mac self titled lp, NICE. Then ZZ Top 3 Amigos, regular pressing, NICE. Kraftwork Radioactivity, NICE.
Unless paying big $$ for remasters, its hit or mostly miss with vinyl quality.
Even streaming seems to be very good or unlistenable thru the same service.
Anyone else experience this?
You hit it right on the head! I've been going through this exact quality of mixing thing with many older albums especially, not condition of the vinyl. Mine are all very good condition.I got rid of stuff I will never play. Slimed way down. Nothing I cannot stream.Seems like I was committing a mortal sin on SH site. So everyone seems to just dismiss all the crap ??
Edits: 03/15/25 03/15/25
That's a big part of why CDs rapidly caught on the 80s. The unfortunate thing these days is that quality is still variable because the pressing plants (which had scaled down if they hadn't otherwise gone out of business in the late 90s, early 2000s) are now so log jammed with orders that they clearly cut corners in quality. I've had Optimal pressings with large threads of vinyl stuck across the grooves making the entire side unplayable.
Off-centred records, dished records are almost the norm now I am finding.
The tragic part of this is that vinyl now costs roughly what I was paying for CDs in the late 80s and early 90s (factoring in inflation) whilst CDs are the price of what vinyl ended up being during the same period.
There's no doubt that on a good system, well-mastered and well produced vinyl sounds better than the equivalent CD when doing a comparison (and I am restricting that comment to standard commercial releases not audiophile reissues....largely because they are mastered badly with clipping on intersample overs and excessive compression and not because digital is inferior because the opposite is actually the case by every measurable parameter), but boy are we getting ripped off by the poor quality.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
I saw a while back:
LPs - 4/1.00
Tapes - 10/1.00
CDs - 20/1.00!!!!
I bought all that they had just for the jewel cases.
Later Gator,
Dave
I always consider that records are a business, and were made to play well with the usual equipment of the times, even moFi records. kind of like a model "T" ford was built for deeply rutted dirt roads and is now obsolete technology .
the last YouTube audio roundtable touched on this subject , during a record shoot out criteria discussion.
they also were very strong on the superior musicality of a modified denon 103 cartridge, which might be helpful if one has grown tired of an overly analytical sound.
personally , I ride out stuff I don't care for, because I dislike the pop, that lifting the stylus out of the groove causes, even more. As my system became more sensitive, pops became an issue.
I can listen past most intrinsic flaws in a recording, but a high impulse pop out of nowhere can interrupt the mood.
record stores that has a small but decent selection of used classical. They had a Mercury Living Presence stereo LP of Scheherazade with the Minneapolis Symphony. Physically, it looked like the day it was sold, both cover and vinyl, but the sound was horrendous- clearly a bad mastering. Practically no bass, compressed, and strident in the highs. Couldn't even listen to it. My disappointment was palpable, especially so, given that the old Mercurys have a great reputation for sound quality. The five dollar price was the only mitigating factor. Guess the cover could serve as artwork.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
Did you look in the deadwax before buying. Usually FR and RFR are the ones worth buying. At least that's my experience. You could try the Golden Imports that Philips did. I have found them to be uniformly great, though some complain about the dynamics compared to the originals. And the Golden Imports are beautifully pressed and quiet. They're also cheap. Here's a sample from Discogs:
Rimsky-Korsakov* - Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra, Antal Dorati - Scheherazade (LP, Album, RE)
Media Condition: Near Mint (NM or M-) A nearly perfect record. The record should show no obvious signs of wear.
Sleeve Condition: Very Good Plus (VG+)
$6.50 flat rate shipping on all orders!
BoopsRecords
100.0%, 18,450 ratings
Ships From:United States
Has 1 item I want
$4.00
+$6.50 shipping
$10.50 total
Nt.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
I just installed new speakers and integrated amp. My intent was to simplify and downsize.
I thought my previous system was quite revealing but auditioning a small selection of LPs with the new components shows even more variation in recording or pressing among examples. So far, the time period for the recording does not separate good from "I'm not listening to that!"
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho
I wouldn't consider a stereo that brought the ugly out a point of pride but I think others would disagree. And IME it's hit and miss with big $$$ remasters too.I agree recording/production quality is apparent when listening digitally too. And though I buy mostly vinyl when purchasing physical media, I really can enjoy pretty much any lossless format.
At this point for some titles I have several reissues/remasters and it becomes dorky and tedious for me to try to crown a victor when they sound different but are equally musically satisfying. And it really doesn't matter if a quality remaster is actually even as good as the original it's usually going bargain compared to cost and time required to find an original in like new condition.
I like originals (or at least earlier pressings) of analog era records. I also like remasters from original labels and other audiophile like labels.
Edits: 03/13/25
Later Gator,
Dave
It's interesting that I have those albums - Pretenders and Supertramp - purchased in the era during which they were originally sold. The sound quality is excellent. I do have a few albums that weren't pressed correctly and are audibly problematic, but defective albums were relatively rare back in the day.
As for remasters, the few I've purchased are all audibly inferior, likely due to being over-processed and digitally recast. My system is all tube, and I can also hear the edgy quality of discs mastered in the early solid state studios vs the transparency of their forerunners. It's really a shame that musicians and studios didn't demand better. In any event, trying to recapture the original nuance and flavor of any source from 40- or 50-year-old master tapes is hopeless. I no longer waste my money on such things.
Indeed some 70's LPs lack vitality. I started a list of drab pressings to showcase how what we thought was good back in the day, is awful by today's recording standards. We had a magic switch back then to fix the problem. It was called "Loudness Contour". It's certainly not the vinyl medium at fault, but there was a time during the oil crunch that vinyl was recycled to include labels and impurities that added noise.
With the resurgances of vinyl in recent years, good to great quality pressings are available. Surprisingly, Ive gotten a couple quite good lps from Best Buy. 180 gram remasters of Rush 2112 and Pink Floyd Animals. I think they were digital remasters, but do sound better than original pressings Ive heard.
BB even carries some MoFi. Im gonna see if theyll order Alan Parsons I Robot UD1S. $100. I get gift cards from my employer so it'd be free.
I have an original '70s I Robot which sounds quite good, but if the UD1S blows the roof off, that will be the record to showcase my rig.
Having lived through that period, I felt lucky if I got a pressing that tracked without the stylus skipping out of the groove.
Nevermind sound quality.
Agreed! You mentioned Kraftwerk Radioactivity - this sounded excellent on my system also. Another gem was the Who Tommy; I have two copies which sound way better than they should!
I'm gonna have to bring out a euro pressing I have of Quadrophenia and blast Punk Meets the Godfather!
....if you can find a copy of Tommy that was pressed for Decca by Mercury and mastered by Gilbert Kong, grab it.
Definite a cut (get it?) above the regular Decca/MCA.
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
Here's the 1971 reissue cut by Gilbert Kong.
What is the sign that it was pressed by Mercury?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
The story I got was, the album sold so well that MCA/Decca had to farm out some of the pressing work to other labels. That's how I found out about the GK copy. I'd have to check my copies (yeah I have two copies even though I rarely play them), but I think the Kong version, the groove around the label's in a different place.
If I'm wrong, well...only as good as my sources.
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
Edits: 03/13/25
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Interesting all the takes on this topic.
In response to some replys here....
Ghost, I agree jazz lps and soft female singers like Sade, Diana Krall are quite good. Analog Production of Getz Gelberto and Dave Burbeck are crazy good.
Tom, If a stylus keeps jumping out of groove, sounds like a tonearm setup issue.
Triode, a Youtube record store owner with an insane rig rates different pressings of same albums. You may be fortunate to have gotten better pressings and or a tube rig has a different affect.
Goober,all I can say is good and great recordings sound amazing on my rig. I attribute the "ugly" to just bad recording, mixing and or pressing.
Finally by fault of my own I use to enjoy music for music on my old modest system in my teen years. I guess having put alot of time and money into a system sets a high expectation.
They looked at jazz as art and rock n roll as product.
Until the late-60s/early-70s when a younger generation of record company execs took over.
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
Edits: 03/14/25
A song on Radioactivity has a single tone that seems to swirl around the room. Very 3D,but a little annoying after awhile, lol.
I have found that some songs I use to not like take on a new interest if very well recorded. Example, use to turn off Diamonds and Rust the second it came on radio in the day. Bought an Analog Production LP showcasing female singers. A live version of Diamonds and Rust is on it. It sounds SO GOOD I use it to demonstrate my system to friends.
there are definitely chestnuts and turds in the vinyl produced in the '70s through '90s.
I have found an ECM recording that made the soundstage seem like a 2x4 window hung between my speakers with out much depth. on the other hand, I have a Mono recording of Miles in Antibes Fr that has passed for stereo.
Many of the turds are '80s rock - and for no apparent reason ....
Having a revealing analogue rig has brought much joy to me and my family over the years - and there are a few records that we NEVER play...
Happy Listening
I agree with you that Eighties rock in general sounds awful, like it was mixed with no bass, overly bright. In general. There are some great sounding recordings from that time.
IMO, jazz recordings are generally excellent, much better than popular music and my theory is that popular music was mixed to sound good on radios.
The blissful counterstroke-a considerable new message.
My take is that, especially in the 1950s, most records (jazz inlcuded) were recorded 'live' with few overdubs. A good engineer, knowing that there would be limited chances to tinker with it afterward, would place the mikes and musicians, set the levels etc to maximize the quality of reproduction. Miles and Teo marked the move in jazz away from this toward the cut-and-paste/jigsaw puzzle approach to recordmaking favored by rockers.As mulitracking and overdubbing became the norm with the growth of pop and rock, this attention to detail before the machines were turned on became less critical. The vagaries of tape recording such as hiss, tape wear and such conspired to reduce quality ('Bridge Over Troubled Water' by S&G a prime example; also, see Mike Oldfield losing the first version of 'Ommadawn' when the tape head wore through the master due to overuse). The temptation to throw in everything but the kitchen sink afforded by multitracking led to questionable artistic and sonic choices.
Plus, drugs...
Edits: 03/20/25
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