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Hi all. I have an opportunity to buy a mint PS Audio Power Plant 10 very cheaply and wondering what peoples opinions are of same?
I have long been a convert to good power cables, DC blockers etc. and a pure wave energy supply seems like a no brainer to me. I'm just wondering if people's experiences are as night and day as some of the reviewers have made out.
Thanks. Michael
I read this and maybe some others will find it interesting, too.
I dislike ASR as a rule of thumb. They appear to me to be a lifeless, soulless bunch who think measurements are the one ring to rule them all while ridiculing folk who use their ears as their measuring instruments. It took a long time for my wife to realise how much of an emotional decision it is to change core components but she got there!
With all my fluffing about regens and UPS' I suspect I won't go that route. There is a general consensus that power amps should be connected to wall sockets only and I already have my CD & TT hooked up to active mains filters and DC blockers. My amp is connected to a DC blocker that can handle 32amp so I have DC noise blocking at a hefty amount of protection too.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. My Santas sack be plentiful
In the form of modified Liebert battery double-conversion. But IME, each house, even each room can respond differently to power conditioners and regenerators. In one on my rooms, sound is great without needing such things for example. Just have to find that right brew..
That is a very interesting report from someone who knows what he is doing. I can only wonder whether the quality of his wall AC is perhaps superior to that which some of us receive. I use a P15, a later generation regenerator from PS Audio and perhaps superior to the P12 (it's about twice as large and twice as heavy as the P12), in my basement system, only because that system is on the same AC line as our furnace(s) and AC compressor(s). I don't claim the P15 is a revelation, but I do think it offers a reliable consistent sound, so that it does not matter whether I listen day or night, hot weather or cold. Results are always consistent and SQ is predictable unless I make a change downstream. That was not the case before I purchased the P15. I'd like to see his testing repeated with the P15 oe P20. Also, after reading the comments on that website, it seems he is preaching to the reverse snobs; "if it costs a lot it must be for suckers", seems to be the philosophy. In my upstairs system, i have dedicated AC lines and no power regenerator.
I have used a P10 for years with zero problems. It has made a difference in my system and I wouldn't think of removing it.
I currently have a Pass Labs XP30 preamp, Pass Labs XP-25 phono pre, Oppo 205, Bricasti M1 Series II, and TechDas turntable plugged into the P10. I think amplifiers are better left plugged directly into the wall socket.
I would love to upgrade to the P20 and maybe then consider plugging my mono block tube amplifiers into it, but it is currently not in my budget. :-)
It is a worthwhile piece of equipment.
Good luck,
Craig
I have it's precursor, the PPP. I've had it since they came out. It's probably the best investment I've made in my system. Yes, the difference is that dramatic, on everything I plug into it. It was a major upgrade, like buying a new amp or source.
Jack
PS Audio is currently having a refurbished unit sale which includes some of their regenerators. They're offering a 14 day trial period for customers.
I have a P3 unit as part of my admittedly modest system and haven't regretted adding it.
Hi guys- been reading some troublesome feedback on PS audio gear on their own forums.
Someone had posted about using online sine wave regenerating UPS's instead which is a similar process- for a LOT less money.. Trouble is, I have no idea how to size either.
My new amps will be SS 700W mono's that draw 150W at idle all the way up to 1500W at full tilt. Full tilt would melt my 300W 96dB speakers and my face while I'm at it so how does one size the output capacity of the UPS/Regenerator?
I'm thinking a 2000W device feeding them should be plenty on tap and give huge overhead if needed.
PS Audio dealers aren't plentiful in Ireland so I don't have the luxury of borrowing one to test the draw of my 500W integrated at present.
Then there's the age old logic one should never plug one's amps into anything other than the wall...-.
Hi guys- been reading some troublesome feedback on PS audio gear on their own forums.
Someone had posted about using online sine wave regenerating UPS's instead which is a similar process- for a LOT less money.. Trouble is, I have no idea how to size either.
My new amps will be SS 700W mono's that draw 150W at idle all the way up to 1500W at full tilt. Full tilt would melt my 300W 96dB speakers and my face while I'm at it so how does one size the output capacity of the UPS/Regenerator?
I'm thinking a 2000W device feeding them should be plenty on tap and give huge overhead if needed.
PS Audio dealers aren't plentiful in Ireland so I don't have the luxury of borrowing one to test the draw of my 500W integrated at present.
Then there's the age old logic one should never plug one's amps into anything other than the wall...-.
So far as I can recall, PS Audio name their power regenerators based on the amperage they can comfortably produce. So, a P10 would produce 10A. Since we want 120V, then it is easy to calculate that the P10 can make 1200W of power. In sizing a regenerator to power an audio amplifier, I would want lots of headroom. In short, don't buy a P10 to power the SS amplifier you have described. SS amplifiers operating in AB mode tend to require lots of current. Even a new P20 (which is a newer generation of their design and much better in other ways than a P10) would be a bit stressed.
I have the opportunity to demo an online double conversion UPS unit so at least I can test the power draw on my 500w unit. Our power supply is 230V not 120v.
An electrically minded friend has suggested the amps would need 6amperes per device @ 1500W which I will never get near.
It's not that you will need the max output in a steady state situation. The issue is the response during transients and also the output impedance of the power regenerator, which governs the speed with which it can keep up with the audio amplifier's power demands.
Is an online sine wave regenerating UPS really the same as a PS Audio PowerPlant? I think the PS Audio lets you tweak the shape of the regenerated waveform for best sound quality. Plus it has isolated outlets, etc.
A while back the trend was Double Conversion UPS. I am not sure how this differs from an online sine wave regenerating UPS.
I don't know how to size it. Maximum peak current of all devices plugged into it plus 20% perhaps?
Some of their earlier models did offer the option of re-shaping the wave form. I think that did more harm than good for some of their customers and also the units themselves were not so reliable, so they have dropped that option. I have a current production P15 the effect of which I like very much, but it does not offer wave shaping or frequency alteration. (I haven't had to touch it since installing it a few years ago, so I hope my memory of the owners manual is accurate.)
The P15 manual indicates that Multiwave is built into the unit. It can be toggled on and off from the remote.
Good evidence that I have been so pleased with the P15 operating in conventional mode that I have not even considered messing with the wave form. Also, in their earlier power regenerators, multiwave was but one way in which you could alter the wave form of the output, again, if memory serves. My P300, a first generation regenerator for PS Audio, crapped out, and though PS Audio were very responsive in that they supplied a schematic and other info to facilitate repair, they will not themselves take on the repair of those early units. I ended up scrapping it.
I can't speak to the P-10 but I did just pick up a P-15 and it was like day and night. It has enough power to supply my whole system which includes a McCormack DNA-1 Amp. I had to make some adjustments after installation as it made that much difference. If it's a good enough deal go for it. You won't regret it.
I suggest reading up on the various generations of PS Audio power regenerators. I too use a P15 to power everything in a system where the amplifiers require very little current (high voltage tube amplifiers that direct drive ESLs), but I would not necessarily recommend running, say, high power SS amplifiers off something like the P10 which might be a bit small in terms of current capabilities for the job. Probably everything upstream of the power amplifiers could easily be handled by the P10, however. But my main point is that there are at least 3 or 4 generations of PS Audio power regenerators, and the latest generation seems to have got it right, which includes the P15 and P20. I would check reviews of the P10 before investing and check the power drawn by your amplifiers. I would want at least a 2X margin of overkill. That is, if the system requires a total of 5A, then a P10 would probably be ok. There are many power amplifiers that draw more than 5A as a stereo pair.
Edits: 11/24/24 11/24/24
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