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If something has been scientifically proven to make a difference, do you automatically assume it works?
If not, don't you then have to trust your own ears/brain?
Follow Ups:
So the Bryston BDA gets good ratings from both Stereophile and TAS. I bought a bunch of Bryston and added in the DAC unheard (the dealer had only the BCD in stock and no BDA.
So I get it and stick it in. Hear no difference from my old tweaked Adcom GDA700 which i bought used for $250 and is over ten years old.
I figure break in. then a start trying to switch stuff around wondering WTF?
I am wondering if the whole Bryston system is a limiting factor? (after all, the Bryston DAC got the "A")
So after a week I get the Bryston phono box BP1.5 and straight up it is wonderful. (I actually cried from relief taht the Bryston stuff in general was a great choice. the sound from the Phono exceeded my expectations)
So at that point I realize the new DAC is nothing.
I take it back for a refund. (and I teied it with various transports including a SCd777ES as transport, various cables .. The Bryston DAC just never sounded any better that my old Adcom DAC.
So I was the victum of a form of expectation bias: the Bryston DAC HAD to sound better. (after all it was Class "A" rated and highly recommended by TAS too.) I just would not give up trying to find that 'better sound' and finally returned it telling the dealer something had to be wrong with the DAC!!
After the dealer said it was working correctly, i declined a second copy to try, and got my money back.
I was really expecting the product to perform, and was seriously let down.
Also when ii had the chance to compair an Audio Research Sp-10 to an ARCSp-15. The SP-15 was way better to my ears than the SP-10. When everyone says the SP-10 is the golden haired child. I chaled it up to the crummy tubes when I sold the SP-10. But really IMO the SP-15 is a better product.
So I think with my reading of reviews sometimes, i accept some stuff they say. So in taht sense I am a bit gullible, but when the sound hits my ears, I go with my ears.
What happened to the claim that people here simply want to share their experiences?
What a load of horseshit.
se
I don't know what the history is here, but I don't think this response is designed to elicit an interesting discussion on the topic, Steve.
-Rod
"What happened to the claim that people here simply want to share their experiences? "
That is all I wish to do. But then there is always some pinhead to come along, invalidating your experience, cause they think its a load of shit, based on their theoretical knowledge, and total lack of experiential knowledge.
That is all I wish to do
Clearly that is NOT the case. If it were, you never would have posted what you did. Instead, you'd have been busy simply sharing your experience.
But then there is always some pinhead to come along, invalidating your experience, cause they think its a load of shit...
What a load of nonsense.
No one can invalidate your experience. Your experience is what it is, regardless of any reasons that may be behind it.
The only thing that can be invalidated are claims made that go beyond your subjective experience, such as claiming or blatantly implying actual audible differences. And if you don't want anyone doing that, then stay on the subjective side of the road.
se
"Clearly that is NOT the case. If it were, you never would have posted what you did. Instead, you'd have been busy simply sharing your experience."
What did I post that so offended you? I thought it was a good question. Can you answer it?
"No one can invalidate your experience. Your experience is what it is, regardless of any reasons that may be behind it."
True. Should have stated, trying to downplay or ridicule, instead of invalidate.
What did I post that so offended you? I thought it was a good question.
It was a question which should have never been asked by someone who claims all they want to do is simply share their experience.
Can you answer it.
Loaded questions aren't deserving of an answer.
Yes or no. Do you still beat your wife?
True. Should have stated, trying to downplay or ridicule, instead of invalidate.
Why should you care what others may say or think of your experience?
se
"Why should you care what others may say or think of your experience?"I don't. Its just kind of annoying when know-it-alls constantly interject their theoretical knowledge into posters subjective findings, suggesting they're full of shit. Capice?
Edits: 04/06/11 04/06/11
I don't. Its just kind of annoying when know-it-alls constantly interject their theoretical knowledge into posters subjective findings, suggesting they're full of shit.
Then obviously you do care.
You say you simply want to share your experience, but really you don't, or else you wouldn't have made your original post.
You say you don't care what others may say or think about your experience, but really you do, or else you what others might say wouldn't annoy you.
Any more contradictions up your sleeve?
se
Won't be surprised if he likes to taste it, too, while in the process of steering.
.
nt
I thought it was a thought provoking question, that apparently you can't answer.
Edits: 04/06/11
nt
nt
And I will NOT just read your crapping on some post because you think it is inappropriate.
Edits: 04/06/11
rose quartz, carnelian mini, aventurine mini and some beautiful large tumbled stone bulk mix...
Thanks for your posts. I don't believe that you are a Pangea shill anymore (a Pangea shill would not be emotional about it).
I bought some rose quartz and amethyst to try out.
nt
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nt
nt
"If something has been scientifically proven to make a difference, do you automatically assume it works?
If not, don't you then have to trust your own ears/brain?"
You just can't admit, that when it comes down to it, in the end, its your ears that guide your final audio purchases, and not science or measurements.
nt
I have nothing to admit about my subjectivist stand on most audiophile matters. To accuse me of being an objectivist of all AA inmates is silly or simply uninformed.
The issue of contention in this forum is folks starting fights with other folks who disagree vis-à-vis the objectivist vs. subjectivist camps.
Trolling is against the spirit of AA. Nothing but grief and other folks stuck between the fights bailing from the AA will be the result.
'nuff said.
Sorry for the accusation. Hard to keep tabs on everyone.
My post wasn't meant to be a troll. And I think the question was a fair one.
So YOU are the offending party,along with Steve Eddy. For some reason yo seem to think you are the arbitor of all things allowed, and spew your crap at anything you deem insufficient for your elivated level of crap.
I have to say I respected your opinion but this sort of shitting on someone elses parade sucks.
So when you are unhappy and have nothing constructive to say, dude, take a hike.
And YES I am guilty here too in raining on your little parade.
Edits: 04/06/11
nt
*
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Of course you have to trust your own ears/brain. Recording and playing back music is as much an art as a science.
If something is "scientifically proven" to make a difference it could only be in the context of a specific experimental setup, with specific recordings, specific playback equipment, specific room and specific listeners. Whether such a difference would even be audible to a given listener in his own system might not be a forgone conclusion. Furthermore, even if the difference were audible, some listeners might not consider it significant. And even if two listeners considered a difference significant, they might have different preferences as to whether the "difference" was good or bad.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
> If something has been scientifically proven to make a difference, do you automatically assume it works?
> If not, don't you then have to trust your own ears/brain?
First, I'm an objectivist who also trusts his ears. But I know that human ears are not 100 percent reliable, especially over time.
Your question includes "scientifically proven" which seems pretty conclusive to me. So if the proof truly is conclusive, then that trumps listening. Now, if something really does sound different, proven with a proper blind test, then perhaps the proof is not conclusive, or the wrong things were measured. Your question is too vague to allow a more specific answer.
--Ethan
If two similarly priced pieces of equipment were being considered, would you automatically pick the one that measured better? Or would that final decision be made using your own ears?
The moderators feel that allowing this thread to continue, even though it may hold useful information, will wind up creating more trouble than it solves, and thereby detract from the purpose of this forum.This is not the appropriate venue for discussion of this matter, and we ask that those with an interest in the subject, take it elsewhere (e.g. private e-mail).
No further follow-ups will be considered.
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