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In Reply to: RE: Moving From 845 tubes back To KT120/KT150 based amps ??? posted by decooney on December 18, 2024 at 19:55:16
Let's see. Two 93db speakers in the room with one watt going to each = 96db. Two watts going to each speaker = 99db, 8watts = 102db, 16 watts + 105db and 32 watts = 108db.
I don't understand why the 40w UL amps were a bit lightweight for our speakers. How loud do you play your speakers?
Maybe power isn't the issue?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
@Tre' @Chip747Thanks for the replies and inquries. Its the opposite of your thoughts. I listen at LOW volume levels, and this is likely more of the constraint with lighter amps with less iron in the power transformers it seems. I'm guessing of course, trying to inquire before I dump $ into some 845 monos to try it out. No demos on those around here. I don't listen at high volume levels at all. The challenge to achievce that (weight in the lower midrange/body) has been the lower powered combo UL/Triode 10-40w switched (EL34, KT88) pentode tube amps and dedicated triode (KT150) amps I've owned and tried from Dennis Had, Cary, Inspire. Nice sounding but my current UL amps stomp them. The goal is to try dedicated Triode amps, maybe. Im not sure how much heft/weight/tubes will be needed for a Triode amp to match the weight/body I get now from the higher power UL amps I use now. Hope that makes sense.
As soon as I swap in my other Quicksilver Mono 120 (UL amps) with KT120 or KT150s do I immediately hear the lower midrange "weight" and mid to lower body/bass. These amps also have some monster dual power transformers on them and sizely power caps on them with tube small tube triode front-end and SS rectifications - if it helps to explain what I mean by real weight to the sound from the main speakers. Yes, the other full Class-A SS 50w amp does a little better than the 10-40w tube amps switched in triode.
Re-Ask: would some hefty 845 monoblock TRIODE amps do as well as my big UL amps I have now. I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out in advance of buying a set and possibly regretting it and going right back to my UL amps.
Note: I do enjoy trying and testing differnet amps with the custom speakers I build. Long story, I worked at a local speaker Co and do this for enjoyment, that's. You guys are the real tube gurus here on TubesAslymum :)Subwoofers: I have two Scanspeak 12" stereo subwoofers I also build and use for 50hz and below. This helps support the absolute bottom end due to room issues I cannot change in a shared family room. I turn these subs off to ensure the main speakers are doing their best, for fine tuning. No, I'm not changing my speakers, they do sound glorious now with good UL/SS amps. Any of my current and former SS amps, never an issue. All the lower midrange body and weight to the sound, but not tube, and not real triode sound I seek in some hefty well designed tube-triode amps. Maybe. Now back to the real triode amp inquiry if I may, please. Thanks again for your help and insights.
I may not be explaining well - a local colleague and 55-year-in-business audio shop owner told me that a really well designed dedicated pair of Triode amps with true triode tubes and hefty iron behind it can do better than some of my former whimpy 10-40w switch triode tube amps I've tried to hear "triode". He keeps telling me what I've tried so far is not real triode, and I need a real pair of real triode monoblock amps, LOL.
Meanwhile, I'm saving up to get there some day. Hopefully that helps explain. Apologize if I'm not explaing well. Happy Holidays.
Edits: 12/19/24
Our own loudspeakers are 93dB three-ways with a fairly benign impedance curve.
My experience is that provided loudspeaker power needs are met, small tubes sound better at low volumes than the big tubes you've been messing with.
Would you consider trying an EL84 amp? Probably a pair per side in PP would be best for your needs. 15W STEREO or thereabouts.
Alternatively, you might like to explore an amp like our LEBEN CS300F which uses the very robust and long-lived JAN6197 triode. Again two tubes per channel for 15W per side and the LEBEN features a switchable output transformer maintaining 15W into 4 | 6 | or 8 Ohms.
I think you would find the low-level listening quality unbeatable... then with 15W in the engine bay, you can raise cain when you feel the urge.
Just a thought...
The triode option in most amplifiers that have this is merely a gimmick to make the amplifier seem more useful. All else being equal, triode mode needs different feedback and different output transformers. There might be instances where switching an amp to triode mode sounds better due to its effect on the amplifier-speaker interface, but the true benefits of triode operation will never be obtained this way. In your case, the description of your system and listening experience seems to indicate that your speakers need an amplifier of relatively high power. If it were me, I'd be looking for an amplifier based on triodes in class A push-pull, rather than single ended.
Lots of reasons for bass issues with his amps, damping factor, impedance mismatch in the bass frequencies, lack of transformer impedance in the bass frequencies. 10 watts above 100hz would likely be deafening for him. His bass problems are more complex for a tube amp, and the 845 will likely make things worse for his current setup. (Dude needs a separately powered sub). His "Lightweight" comment is probably a comparison to his 50w SS amp.
Edits: 12/19/24
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