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172.58.116.220
boost power and provide some articulation and "air".... Schitt? Chord? FiiO? Audio Engine? iBasso? I know nothing about them so any direction would be appreciated....
Follow Ups:
My current favorite headphone amp is a Japanese model. Aurouasound HEADA headphone amp. A SS amp that has air and detail in the midrange and treble registers that almost sounds tube-like, and still has the solid SS bass.
" Don't look back. Something may be gaining on you"
Satchel Paige
A good PP amp holds together better than SET headphone amps, even if I say so myself.
SETs have about 20-25% usable power. A good PP amp has more like 95%. On phones, the SET will sound louder but when you measure the output power you find out it isn't. This is just due to the increased distortion of SETs; the ear uses higher ordered harmonics to sense sound pressure; you eliminate those as you can with a good PP amp and it doesn't sound as 'loud'.
You could also use a properly refurbished Dynaco ST35. They are also available as kit new these days. https://www.dynakitparts.com/shop/st-35-kit-120-vac/
Manley makes two amps suitable for headphone use
https://www.manley.com/hifi/mahi
https://www.manley.com/hifi/mabhpa (this one specifically designed for 'phones)
On that manely designed specifically for phones, why do they have single ended ins only but then have a balanced output. It seems like a miss for such a pricey piece.
Cut to razor sounding violins
The 4-pin XLR is usually used for the 4 wire connection. The improvement in doing so is instantly audible. So that's not a balanced output on the Manley headphone amp.
4 pin out is usually called balanced output and on Manely's web site they say its balanced:
Outputs (transformer coupled):
1 pair RCA- Unbalanced (Preamp Output)
1 x TRS ¼" JACK - Unbalanced
1 x 4 PIN XLR- Balanced
The link below goes into some nuance. And also just from a practical standpoint that amp at that price should have balanced ins. Especially if they are targeting studios.
Cut to razor sounding violins
They mention an XLR connector on the back and there is one spot where the word 'balanced' does occur; technically this is correct since neither side of the XLR outputs is at ground. But I suspect that's more of a copy/editing issue since what they really have there is the 4-wire connection.
If you've not heard the 4 wire hookup, its worthwhile. In a 3-wire connection, there is out of phase information that is cancelled in the ground for either channel, which is common. In a 4-wire setup this doesn't happen so you hear more stuff!
Also this headphone amp isn't targeted at studios.
Agree about 4 pin and sounding better but its a miss to not allow a balanced input for the same reason they give a balanced output.
Here are some papers. The first one explains the benefit of balanced sources but the 2nd explains why single ended outputs are superior.
My 2 cents is that the first one is correct but not the 2nd.
Anyhow at that price balanced in is a miss imho. Are you saying that balanced in is not a benefit?
Cut to razor sounding violins
My company, Atma-Sphere, has been producing balanced preamps for home use longer than anyone else in the world. We patented a direct-coupled output that is one of the few ways AES48 can be supported. So I understand the benefits of balanced operation!
WRT to Manley's headphone amp, I don't think its aimed at the pro or semi-pro market. But it could be used as a balanced preamp, although you'd need an adapter to break out the left and right channels.
Sorry I didn't see that. Was working on the phone.
Al Sekela used to rave about your amps but sadly I missed them when I finally got around to hearing his system.
So great to be talking to a manufacturer. Can you guys make this balanced stuff simple? You all are all over the map! Should be straight forward. But as far as I can tell there is balanced connections between components, balanced circuits, and balanced headphone outs. Too busy listening to music to find different words??
You are saying that balanced outs from a headphone amp is best (correct me if I got that wrong), and one of my headphone amps manual says "The TRS out is provided for TRS terminated headphones, but it is recommended to use the amp in fully balanced mode with balanced terminated headphones".
But Paul from PS audio says that its not important to have the headphone be balanced but it is important to have the source be balanced. And Pass labs makes a great headphone amp that doesn't even have a balanced out. And Benchmark has a white paper about how headphones are balanced by nature and you don't need balanced outs, but then puts a balanced connector on their amps.
And now you are saying that the Manley amp with only rca ins could be used as a balanced pre. That is sooo confusing because I thought balanced needed 3 conductors and single ended just has two. But you do mention a box right? Is that some kind of phase splitter or something?
Anyhow I am even more confused after reading your site. You argue for balanced connections between gear and conclude it sounds better than single ended but somehow its not a miss that the Manley doesn't have balanced ins?
Lawyers are kind of jealous...
Cut to razor sounding violins
I don't know if there's any way to get manufacturers to simplify the balanced line message. It does not help when competent manufacturers like Manley use the word when talking about headphone connections!
I use the phrase '4 wire connection'; that way you get that two wires are for one channel and 2 are for the other.
A preamp or amplifier can be internally single-ended but have balanced inputs and outputs. Ampex made tube tape electronics in their pro line back in the 1950s that were exactly that. FWIW the headphone output was 4 wires since their electronics like the 351 tape electronics were mono. So the headphone output was mono too.
If Pass Labs makes headphone amps that don't have a 4 wire connection, they are missing a bet. The difference is instantly audible.
Off topic, just wondering...
But if one type provides better electrical contact than the other type, are the differences basically negligible ?
-some signals cancel in the common connection used with 3 wires. So you hear more information when using 4. Its not subtle- you hear it right away.
Not sure if it's sonically superior in any way to amps with 4 wire outs, but my headphone amp was made to handle headphones with dual 3 pin XLR cables. Two larger 3 pin XLR jacks provide a bit more surface area for electrical contacts than a single smaller 4 pin XLR jack does, I guess. Not sure if it matters much, sonically...So I have 2 pairs of headphones re-cabled with dual 3 pin XLR connectors.
20 years or so ago, Headroom made dual mono headphone amps with 3 pin XLR ins and outs. My amp was made to handle headphones suited to that kind of amp. The dual 3 pin XLR arrangement fell out of favor, but I believe that John Atkinson of Stereophile still uses his Headroom dual mono, dual 3 pin XLR, balanced headphone amp - the flagship amp from Headroom before that company folded.
My amp sounds great, that's all I know. A bonus of having these L/R outs is that I can also use the headphone amp as a stereo preamp.
Edits: 01/02/25 01/02/25 01/02/25 01/02/25 01/03/25 01/03/25
Its likely that its only 4 wires. To avoid signal cancellation, the sleeve connection would simply not be connected to anything.
I never looked inside the amp but you'd be the one who'd know...
Well Manley is not alone. If a manufacturer has an xlr or 4.4mm or 2.5mm jack on their headphone amp, they all say balanced . Here are some examples:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_956UAHPAMP/Naim-Uniti-Atom-Headphone-Edition.html?tp=60845
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_246ZENCAN/iFi-ZEN-CAN-Standard-Edition.html
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_958MHA200/McIntosh-MHA200.html
And Pass is in good company not offering a 4 pin output:
https://www.musicdirect.com/headphone-amp/music-hall-ph25-2-headphone-amplifier/
https://headphones.com/products/feliks-audio-echo-mk-ii
https://headphones.com/products/leeloo-desktop-tube-headphone-amplifier
And one would think the pro market would be using a 4 pin output for headphones. I own 5 different pro audio products that have headphone outs and none of them have a 4 pin output:
Hafler HA-75- 2 headphone outs all 3 pin
Tascam da-3000
Focusrite Am2
ESI planet 22x
Behringer battery amp
And even the pricey amps or dacs amps like Phonitor and Cranesong and lynx or the well known ones like Rupert Neve or little labs and Klang, none offer 4 pin. Only one I know of is Benchmark. Are the pros missing the boat?
And headphone makers. Lots of one cable cans out there that can't be run 4 pin without surgery. Why oh why do they do that if 4 pin is better?
Cut to razor sounding violins
Usually in pro audio the concern is being able to hear the mix while a musician is playing. So the concern for the best sound of the 'phones isn't as important- getting the recording right is. Once the tracks are all there then you mix it. The 4 wire connection would likely help for that but engineers are just as likely to use speakers as well.
My Schiit Jotunheim 2 has a 4 pin output that I use with my HiFiMan HE6se V2 headphones. I use "balanced" cables to connect my Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DAC to the Jotunheim 2. Schiit calls the Jotunheim 2 and Bifrost 2/64 inputs/outputs balanced. Are they? Dunno, but I like the combination.
Regards,
Steve
I had the Vali2 and the Eitr. Often almost buy Schiit products. Hifiman too. Was looking at that same headphone. How do you like it?
Cut to razor sounding violins
I love the HiFiMan HE6se V2 headphones. I got an open box set for $609 2 years ago. Now you can get a refurbished pair for $369.
I'm a long time Magnepan listener and when I lost my listening room temporarily I looked for planar headphones to fill in. I like the tonal balance of the HE6se, and they have great bass and dynamics. They are very comfortable to wear but they take a little extra power for listening levels I like. As a reference, I tried driving them with my Samsung phone and couldn't quite get to the level I wanted. The Schiitt Magni+ worked fine to drive them, but I went to the Jotunheim 2 for the extras it offers.
I keep meaning to post my impressions of my headphone system but haven't quite put finger to keyboard yet...
Regards,
Steve
https://bottlehead.com
You must be referring to the Crack. It was a fun kit to build. The instructions are absolutely first-rate. Certainly doable by a first-timer. You must follow all of the safety directions. No short-cuts! Take your time.
The output tube can be a 6AS7 or a 6550 (I believe). I used a Soviet equivalent to a 6AS7 before I switched over to a GE 6550. Tube rolling works in this case.
It was great with a pair of Beyerdynamic DT-990 600 Ohm. (High impedance phones work best here.) I was happy with it until I got stats.
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
I bought it for $130+$80ish shipping from Aliexpress. Do it before the tariffs kick in. So far it's driving Sennheiser HD600 from its headphone output with authority, resolution, and tube magic, Stax SR009 with same magic and seemingly limitless power (via transformer from speaker taps).
It even drives the crazy monster of planar headphone, Abyss Ab1266 TC, via speaker taps, to good levels unless pushing EDM bass.
The best part, however, is that it is a great-sounding amp driving my inefficient bookshelf speakers (84.5dB) near-field on my desktop!
If you have high impedance headphones, the Bottlehead Crack should be on your list. It's a kit, easy to assemble, and has great customer service from the company and its very active user forum. If your soldering technique is good, go for the optional "Speedball" constant-current power supply. Price is $369, or $484 with the Speedball upgrade. I've had mine for many years now, and it's heaven on Senn HD-800's.
WW
"Put on your high heeled sneakers. Baby, we''re goin'' out tonight.
Impedance and efficiency are the two main things you need to know before moving forward.
Do you want tube or solid state? Does the physical size matter?
You do know what you are talking about. So, thanks for trying !
Meanwhile, the blind will continue to lead the blind...
I suggest you that you look into the headphone amps by Garage 1217. I have their Project Sunrise amp and it does a good job driving my Grado RS2 headphones. I also use it as a preamp to front a Fosi V3 in a small system. It's an ideal amp if you want to try tube rolling. It uses a single tube as an input and a mosfet output.
I'm assuming you already have headphones you like and are looking for more volume, and possibly something that brings out the qualities you like better than the device you are currently using to power them.
I have HiFiMan planar headphones that take more power than my streamer and DAC provide to reach a sound level I like. I have used the Schiit Magni+ and Jotunheim amps. The Magni+ is a great bargain and works for my headphones, but the Jotunheim has plenty of head room and sounds more effortless at any volume level.
I recommend both of these Schiit amps. My headphones have good bass response and appreciate the extra power of the Jotunheim.
Regards,
Steve
Lyr 3, Asgard 3, Vali 2++, Fulla, and now a Midgard. The Lyr was the best, but is a bit pricey and runs hot (though I mainly used it as a preamp with its Multibit DAC card.) However, if one wants the best performance for the money, I'd go for the Midgard. At $220 it is a fantastic buy. I use it to power my Hifiman Sundara planar headphones which it does with ease. It also has the interesting "halo" circuit option which I find I slightly prefer, though the effect is very subtle.
I use a Midgard amp with Sennheiser HD600s, Focal Clear OGs, and occasionally AKG K702. The sound quality is always clear and clean, and there is more than enough power for any of these headphones.
I didn't notice anything different when using the Halo circuit with the Focals, the only one of these cans for which I have a balanced cable.
The only negative about the Midgard is that the power switch is on the back. I suppose there is a reason that Schiit does this with many of its products, but it's just plain inconvenient.
I should be clear that I have a Jotunheim 2 amp.
I second the Schiit recommendation. Here's my stack.
Gsquared
Power requirements vary depending on the headphones. Not all headphones have the same "needs"...Some are lower impedance, others are higher impedance. Some need lots of power, others need very little power. The published operating specs of each type of component are there for you to read.
Once you select a pair of headphones, read all about them in the reviews and the headphone forums. There are certain amp/headphone combos that are reported to work better than others.
And you'll also want the type of sound that suits your personal listening habits and tastes. Some amps have "house" sounds that tend to lean in one direction or the other, tonally.
So, pick your headphones first. Then do some research on the internet forums and reviews and ask some questions too, if you need too.
You might end up going through a few different amps before you find the "right" sound for your listening habits and personal tastes. That is just the way it goes....
Edits: 11/01/24
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