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Tweakers' Asylum Tweaks for systems, rooms and Do It Yourself (DIY) help. FAQ. |
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Tweakers' Asylum Tweaks for systems, rooms and Do It Yourself (DIY) help. FAQ. |
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In Reply to: OK posted by BS64 on October 19, 2008 at 13:52:34:
Quite obviously your new round of questions are neither sincere, nor from anyone seeking honest information.Answering more of your disingenuous questions poses only two possible outcomes: Continued derision based on ill conceived or irrational argument, or another round of follow up questions, typo challenges and other time wasting inquiries.
Since I am sure you have many more productive ways to spend your time, as we do, I asked Caelin Gabriel, who designs our products, for simple answers to your (likely borrowed) questions. Since honestly motivated people may ask similar questions out of curiosity some day, we'll archive the content as faq material in more detailed form.
There is no point to any further dialogue in this context. It is a lose-lose proposition. You will never run out of questions, innuendo or finger pointing because it appears to be your nature regarding anything outside the sphere of your experience.
If you have personal issues, new attacks or concerns that need more of our time, call me directly. We'll have coffee.
Here are your pointed questions, and their answers:
>>>"You claim: "elevating a cable from the floor with an electrical insulator creates a relative static charge differential between the cable and floor. Over a period of time this static differential can become enormous -- sometimes exceeding tens of thousands of volts."<<<
This is correct. See the following Wikipedia on static charge for basic understanding of the issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_electricity
>>>"So which has the higher static charge that is causing this differential, the cable or the floor? If it's a wood floor, it must be the cable. "<<<
All charges are relative. Static charges are everywhere and relative to the various materials that are in close proximity to one another. One material (A) may have a relative electric charge that is negative to material (B) while simultaneously having a relative positive charge to material (C). Earth ground is commonly used as the reference for a zero charge, but it is irrelevant to the charges between any two materials since their potentials are "floating".
>>>"If it's a carpeted floor, the carpet is neutral. It can produce a static charge on another object when that object is dragged across it, but carpet does not inherently possess an over-abundance of electrons or a static charge. If it did, it would shock you every time you walked onto it. So again, if there is a static differential being produced, the cable must possess the higher charge. "<<<
Triboelectric materials each have relative charge potentials that vary according to the material. So, think of a scale that goes from strongly positive to strongly negative. Each material has a charge "potential" that lies somewhere along that scale. [NOTE: Do not confuse the term "potential" with charge. I am referring to its ability to manifest a charge; and when it manifests a charge, what that relative charge would be.] Then, you look at two materials to see where they lie on the scale relative to one another. The further apart they are on the scale, the stronger the electric potential they can manifest relative to one another.
Some materials do not generate a net electrical charge through the triboelectric effect. Steel is one of these substances. Carpet however is usually made from synthetic fibers such as polyesters that have strong negative potentials or from nylon that has a strong positive potential. None of these materials are like batteries. They do not inherently posses a net electric charge. It is only when they are activated through the close proximity of another triboelectric material, of differing electric potential, do they manifest a relative charge one to the other.
The charge between the floor and the cable is produced in two ways. The first is when the cable is installed. The cable is laid on the floor and (commonly) dragged about. When the cable is separated from the floor with a cable elevator, the triboelectric effect will be produced causing a relative electric charge between the cable and the floor material. Interesting, one of the popular types of cable elevators is made from glass. Glass is one of the highest positive triboelectric materials and cable insulation is usually a teflon or polyethylene which is very strongly negative - the net result will be a very high static charge between the elevator and the cable irrespective of the flooring material. So now you have three materials in close proximity with three different static states.
The second method in which static charges are developed is a bit more difficult to understand but none the less explainable. A cable is composed of a conductor which is usually copper, silver or copper alloy. The conductor is insulated with a dielectric - usually polypropylene, polyethylene, PVC or Teflon. The conductors have a mild negative electric "potential" while the dielectric materials are all very strongly negative. This creates a fairly powerful static charge potential difference. The "rubbing" force required by the triboelectric effect is provided by the movement of the electrons in the conductor. The constant back and forth movement of the electrons generates a static charge within the dielectric material that builds up over time. This effect is very commonly manifest in Teflon insulated cables and is why they are sometimes more dramatically affected by dry weather.
Regarding the "shocking" effect to humans. Human skin is one of the most positive potentials. So if a human comes in contact with just about any negative charge - there will be a transference of electrons to the human. This is why there are rigorous procedures and grounding devices used in the assembly of electronic LSI devices. FEELING the transference of electrons is another story all together. To feel the transference as a "shock" the electrons would need to jump across an air gap to produce a spark. Air breaks down at about 30KV per centimeter. So there can be electric static charges that are many thousands of volts without the presence of sparks.
>>>So is a speaker cable with it's relatively low voltage/current and insulated conductors capable of producing a static field in the +10Kv range? If it IS the cable that has the lower of the 2 charges, how is the carpet/floor acquiring the higher charge? <<<
see all of the above.
>>>"If all of this holds true, could one not lower their speaker cables close enough to the floor to create a spark? "<<<
Most cable elevators create a gap of greater than 2 inches. This would necessitate a static charge in excess of 150KV. Doesn't seem likely, does it?
Now, any genuine person who received this detailed answer might be satisfied given that it follows general common sense and accepted theory. My guess is you are not one of those folks, are you?
Any new round of questions? Call us directly. Enough forum space has been wasted on your net -detective quest already.
Grant
Shunyata Research
Edits: 10/20/08
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Follow Ups
- Game's over - Grant 18:49:23 10/20/08 (1)
- "the sphere of your experience" - BS64 07:05:38 10/21/08 (0)
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