Re: Listening room tweaks

209.244.102.30

Posted by Jim Bookhard on March 23, 2000 at 12:51:22

In Reply to: Re: Listening room tweaks posted by Lonely Raven on March 23, 2000 at 07:28:22:

TLR,

I'm not being "aggressive", "narrow minded" nor seeking an argument with you. I simply asked the question to what, exactly, is it that you disagree? I can tell you an experience that I had with a local dealer. He had two Corner Tunes (the so-called "pillow" type products) installed in his main high end listening room. I asked him who was the manufacturer. He told me that they were from RoomTunes and that he had them up for 4 years. I asked him if he had a ladder and that I would be glad to install them correctly for him, if he liked. He did have his partner, on my instructions, install the products correctly. The soundstage increased to the left of the room and then to the right at the front of the room. As the dealer said, "I didn't know it made a difference as to how they were oriented". He was shocked at the increase in soundstage that these little pillows made and brought everyone (customers and his other sales people) into the listening room to hear the positive change in sound. I then placed a third "pillow" product that he had stuck up on a wall, mid-way between two $10,000 per pair speakers that were on demo and vocals took on a clairity that even a customer that I knew who had an "untrained" ear said, without any prompting, "the vocal of James Taylor just got clearer!".

There are many people who have these products who do not install them correctly (the reflective side must face into the room and all 4 corners should be treated). The upper corner "Tune" products are to prevent "hornloading" which occurs due to an excessive buildup of acoustical energy in a room's corner, usually in the bass region. These products are very effective against this type of problem when installed correctly.

You did not mention the studio that you heard the PZCs and I was not there, so I cannot say that they were or were not installed correctly. But, users should not attempt to configure a room with these devices on their own, unless they have the necessary experience to do so. This is not intended to cast any aspersions on you or the studio, but would you know if the PZCs were adjusted and installed correctly? Would you also know if the room was correctly configured and was it configured by MGD? As I'm sure your research has shown you, and as you also know in dealing with anything in audio, you can take the best product, set it up incorrectly and it will not perform at its best. So, all I'm saying is that if you get the opportunity, take a listen to a room which is correctly configured with these devices and correctly adjusted. You will be quite surprised as to their effectiveness. If you have looked at the configuration of the listening rooms at Widescreen Review magazine, you will see that all their listening rooms for reviews are configured with these devices (PZCs). The Eastman School of Music and the UMI musical instrument company use the "pillow" products, which were chosen over RPG, ASC, Corning and others, because they were the only products found acceptable to fix bandbox acoustical problems amongst music schools. UMI has never endorsed any acoustical company until it started using MGD products. They have both done extensive testing on acoustical products. Bandbox instructors and students were going deaf due to echoes and could not hear at the end of the day when they went home nor could they pick out a given student who may have been playing incorrectly or out of tune, prior to installed these small "pillow" type products. So, the musical world's experience in quite contrary to yours. This is not to say that your experience is "wrong" or that I don't "agree" with it. Your experience is your experience and no one can argue with that.

There is also no real comparison to the performance of a correctly configured room using PZCs and one treated with the "Tune" products,as effective as the "Tune" products are. Doug Blackburn of Soundstage and Positive Feedback have both written reviews on the PZCs. Home Theater Magazine performed a shootout between ASC, Echo Busters and the PZCs and the PZCs were chosen as the winner. What was not noted in the review shootout was that the PZCs were setup over a weekend, while they had the other products for 9 months to play with. MGD installed and adjusted the PZCs over a couple of hours before the shootout.

I have nothing against DIY acoustical products and I often recommend people to consider Jon Risch's (of AA) DIY treatments. As a matter of fact, I am not "anti" any acoustical company's product because every application and every room on the planet responds differently acoustically, so every room will have its own solution for acoustical treatments. For example, PZCs cannot be mixed with absorbing acoustical products because the two are incompatible, etc.

So, if you can state to yourself, categorically, that the devices you heard were installed, configured and adjusted correctly, then that's all that should matter to you. We all hear differently and I cannot, and will not, say that your ears are "wrong". And, you need not convince me of anything. If you are sure these devices do not live up to their potential (given that you truly understand their potential), then that's all that matters and I have no "argument" with anything you say. As a matter of fact, I only wish you my best in your listening experience.

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Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - Listening room tweaks - Rob Bertrando 08:12:50 03/21/00 (28)

Is that Jon Rish 's recipy? I am interested to try one. NT - Kent 23:39:30 03/21/00 (0)

How Big Is Yours? :) - Simon Templar 19:38:48 03/21/00 (4)

Re: How Big Is Yours? :) - Rob Bertrando 21:14:47 03/21/00 (3)

Re: How Big Is Yours? :) - Lonely Raven 11:32:56 03/22/00 (2)

Re: How Big Is Yours? :) - Simon Templar 14:01:25 03/22/00 (1)

Re: How Big Is Yours? :) - Lonely Raven 06:57:52 03/23/00 (0)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Gary Jacobson 14:45:52 03/21/00 (0)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Lonely Raven 11:25:03 03/21/00 (19)

Re: room corner treatment - Rob Bertrando 14:34:51 03/21/00 (10)

Re: room corner treatment - Lonely Raven 11:26:41 03/22/00 (9)

Re: room corner treatment - Jon Risch 18:14:36 03/27/00 (0)

The pillows aren't for bass - Rob Bertrando 15:12:59 03/22/00 (4)

Re: The pillows aren't for bass - Lonely Raven 06:59:22 03/23/00 (3)

Re: The pillows aren't for bass - Rob Bertrando 13:41:32 03/23/00 (1)

Re: The pillows aren't for bass - Lonely Raven 14:04:50 03/23/00 (0)

Re: The pillows aren't for bass - Lonely Raven 07:31:27 03/23/00 (0)

Tube traps more specific frequency?? - Bill Z 11:43:03 03/22/00 (2)

Re: Tube traps more specific frequency?? - Jon Risch 18:07:59 03/27/00 (0)

Re: Tube traps more specific frequency?? - Lonely Raven 07:20:12 03/23/00 (0)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Jim Bookhard 12:03:17 03/21/00 (7)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Lonely Raven 11:30:39 03/22/00 (6)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Jim Bookhard 12:02:51 03/22/00 (5)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Lonely Raven 07:28:22 03/23/00 (4)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Jim Bookhard 12:51:22 03/23/00 (3)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Lonely Raven 14:16:52 03/23/00 (2)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Jim Bookhard 16:11:41 03/23/00 (1)

PS - Jim Bookhard 16:30:52 03/23/00 (0)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Jim Bookhard 10:25:34 03/21/00 (0)

Follow Ups

Re: Listening room tweaks - Jim Bookhard 12:51:22 03/23/00 (3)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Lonely Raven 14:16:52 03/23/00 (2)

Re: Listening room tweaks - Jim Bookhard 16:11:41 03/23/00 (1)

PS - Jim Bookhard 16:30:52 03/23/00 (0)

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