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put together a system that changed my understanding of the hobby ...

172.58.211.100
Posted on July 10, 2024 at 22:10:55
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 so I have been in the hobby for decades ..... I have owned 300b SET amps and tube preanps .... I was friends with Dr Edgar of Edgerhorn fame ,,,,,heard hundreds of high end systems including all the best stuff like MBl, electrostatics .... Magnepan..... Apogee ,,,,, been to major audio shows

But I just put together this very inexpensive system that is blowing my mind with its sound quality ,,,,,

here it is:

1) Rega planet cd player version 1
2) Pass B1 active buffer - DIY - to match impedance
4) Focal Evo 50 - active speakers with inverted domes -self powered
5) home made interconnects - thin pure silver wire in packing tape

total cost is a grand for everything - that's less then what most of you guys spend for a single interconnect !

how does it sound ?

vocals are so life like that we are talking near Quad electrostatic quality .... system has prat and is very fast and dynamic .... bass extension is limited but what's there is real good fast clean and deep form 5 inch drivers ,,,, wind instruments and brass are jaw dropping .... at times the system is spooky real sounding ..... utterly blows my Magnepan LRS system out of the water.... it can even rock out without becoming constipated and bloaty like most mini monitors

still trying to understand why this particular set-up is so great ?

 

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what was your understanding of the hobby before? /nt, posted on July 11, 2024 at 04:56:05
Story
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Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000



 

RE: put together a system that changed my understanding of the hobby ..., posted on July 11, 2024 at 05:09:15
The Dill
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Location: Portland, Oregon
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Contributor
  Since: February 3, 2016
 You might be stuck on how good it sounds for the "price" of it all. But, hey that's what it is all about, congrats.

 

LOL! nt, posted on July 11, 2024 at 06:55:04
Tom
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  Since: March 16, 2002

 

Less discerning ears or an open mind to change ?, posted on July 11, 2024 at 07:01:03
AbeCollins
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 Less discerning ears or an open mind to change after decades of brain washing by the audio press and high-end dealers? No, you don't need pricey well reviewed and highly ranked megabuck "recommended components" to have a nice sounding system.

Congrats!

Are these what you have?



 

RE: Less discerning ears or an open mind to change ?, posted on July 11, 2024 at 07:23:19
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 that's them -

I got them on sale for about 460 for both. They are marketed for studio work - had they been marketed for audiophiles the same speakers would be triple or quadruple the cost. I think one of the big things is I eliminated some components most other people have which is really helping, for one I got rid of the pre-amp gain stage - I am using just a simple impedance matching network ... no interconnect from pre amp to amp .......no speaker cables - just 2 interconnects to the speakers which are just 2 thin wires run side by side sandwiched in clear tape so there is none of this dielectric mumbo junbo nonsense. I always liked tubes and have heard everything from massive OTL ,,,, to the large triodes 211 ,,,,to little 45s amps .... and yet not really needed here the system is not at all strident or brittle ... sound stage might not match the best tube pre-amps but its still pretty darn good .... if I want to add a sub well the company Focal had engineered one that's great and was purpose built specifically for the speaker - and its cheap ! over -all system sound id pretty liquid without the typical solid state grit. I am not saying that it sounds like a full blown Rockport / Gryphon rig - just that for 500 times less you can have something that sounds amazing.

 

RE: Less discerning ears or an open mind to change ?, posted on July 11, 2024 at 07:36:40
AbeCollins
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  Since: February 2, 2002
 A relatively low priced system that sounds outstanding. That's fantastic!

Given our 'audiophile upbringing' I can understand disappointment if it didn't sound so good but we would chock it up to not being expensive enough. What's even worse though is a pricey audiophile approved setup or piece of gear that disappoints. I've been there with a few 'recommended components' over the decades. I have a mental list of well reviewed and somewhat pricey gear that I have owned that didn't sound so great. Some are well established brands.

Nice find! What prompted you to give it a try?



 

RE: Less discerning ears or an open mind to change ?, posted on July 11, 2024 at 07:55:27
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 What prompted me was that I purchased a single speaker for my use for karaoke and was floored and at how clear my own voice sounded

I thought " shit if my own voice sounds this good on here I wonder about Ella ? "

So I bought a second one

The next day the Magnepan LRS was boxed up

 

$$$$$$$$., posted on July 11, 2024 at 08:27:14
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10676
Joined: April 12, 2002
 Instead of $.

 

I'm not surprised, posted on July 11, 2024 at 09:41:55
mlsstl
Audiophile

Posts: 1132
Location: Midwest
Joined: September 1, 2015
 There is a lot of great equipment available at reasonable prices. And, like you, I've heard a number of expensive/exotic systems over the years. They often sound great but I find I frequently get just as much pleasure out of more basic setups. There are two key reasons that's true for me. First, I'm the biggest variable in my system -- my mental state and physical condition at the moment play major roles in how I respond to music (and endless other situations.) Second, I find the quality of recordings also varies -- some of my favorite recordings are so-so, or even poor, and even good recordings may have aspects I wish were done differently. Expensive systems don't fix either issue. Given those variables, I have no urge to spend big bucks chasing "perfection" on the equipment side.

 

Similar here, posted on July 11, 2024 at 10:37:51
AbeCollins
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Sometimes I'm in a receptive mood for music but not always. But I don't KNOW if I'm truly in the mood or not until I start listening for a while. When I'm not in the mood it's best to just shut the system off.

On a related note I have 3 different amps. I know which one is my favorite but it's refreshing to change it up now and then.




 

I could have saved you some money..., posted on July 11, 2024 at 10:39:20
AbeCollins
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...by asking you to try your karaoke voice in the shower ;-)



 

Agree 100%!! Great post..n/t, posted on July 11, 2024 at 10:54:21
old guy 42
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  Since: August 26, 2012

 

You must be near-field listening, posted on July 11, 2024 at 11:39:49
Jon L
Audiophile

Posts: 6149
Joined: April 6, 2000
 I too get sound quality out of my near-field system I prefer over many non-near field, full-blown audio systems.
Rules of the audiophile game change in these settings.

 

about 12 foort away ,,,,,,,,,,,,, posted on July 11, 2024 at 11:54:24
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 thats not near field to me .....................

did I mention that the vocals are near Quad 57 electrostatic quality ?????

 

RE: put together a system that changed my understanding of the hobby ..., posted on July 11, 2024 at 14:04:09
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4559
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 Congratulations Triode Rob!

Finding joy, or fantastic sound quality can be elusive

I am glad that you have put together a system that is satisfying!
I am quite happy with my system also-
and though I would love to try other components or rooms, etc.
I am happy with what I have.

Seems to be rare...
Happy Listening

 

Having owned a number of tiny box speakers...-, posted on July 11, 2024 at 14:40:11
E-Stat
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Posts: 38789
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Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 the problem I have with them is apparent image size is likewise tiny - or seemingly very distant.

 

Congrats! AND you did it before 100! Right components/synchronicity..., posted on July 11, 2024 at 14:48:51
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 32258
Location: San Francisco
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Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 some aspects of this hobby need no technical explanation or
mathematical answer if your sense of ... acceptance... is in
tune with what you are experiencing.

There are myriad reasons no two systems in "Inmate Systems"
are identical in cost, effort, configuration, et al.

Really nice you hit a sweet spot a financially hindered hobbyist
such as myself can appreciate, too!

Your ICs inspired by Mapleshade?

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: I'm not surprised, posted on July 11, 2024 at 15:24:01
Mick Wolfe
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  Since: September 4, 2000
 +1. I too have reached a state of contentment with no further desire to chase the "unicorn".

 

you are spoiled ,,,,,,, posted on July 11, 2024 at 15:35:41
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 you are use to those huge sound lab electrostatic panels - if I had your system I would throw mine away

 

Just one question, posted on July 11, 2024 at 16:04:48
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 5754
Joined: November 15, 2016
 Is this a CD only system?

 

Point taken but, posted on July 11, 2024 at 16:05:26
E-Stat
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Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 even the skinny 1+1s in the HT do a good job.

And the LRS.

 

prat and jaw dropping in one paragraph! ;) (nt), posted on July 11, 2024 at 17:40:09
mhardy6647
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Location: New England
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  Since: October 23, 2016
 nt
all the best,
mrh

 

reek to reel......, posted on July 11, 2024 at 20:33:51
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 I tried a reel to reel player with pre recorded rapes and it was even better ! they were 1/4 track and 7 1/2 speed

 

LRS ,,,,,, posted on July 11, 2024 at 20:37:35
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 the LRS have a bigger sound stage - especially height wise but the focal are a far more life like presentation - and the sweet spot is dramatically bigger

 

RE: LRS ,,,,,, posted on July 11, 2024 at 21:17:27
Rod M
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  Since: March 1, 1999
 That's an interesting dichotomy. Often some big speakers can seem too big. The girl with a guitar can often create a more intimate, life life presentation. My old Merlin TSMs had that characteristic. It just sounds spooky real.





-Rod

 

Feeling so good, posted on July 12, 2024 at 03:13:27
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8448
Joined: June 3, 2006
 about this post. I can feel me falling in love with this humble system. A budget speaker with presence and clarity of voice.Well done Sir. Thanks for sharing.

Bill

 

Ain't It Grand !! ..., posted on July 12, 2024 at 06:52:22
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13291
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  Since: January 19, 2010
 Like you, I'd heard it all. I worked in high-end, went to shows, visited manufactures, and was around great sound for years.

After upgrading my system to the point where I was no longer comfortable with the investment, I stopped. I sold it all and walked away for a while.

Then I put together my current rig, which while 3X the cost of yours, I still consider cheap.

I've had no upgrade itch for almost a decade.

I am convinced a major reason for being so happy with my rig is never allowing myself to hear a "better" one.

That, and my system can give me goosebumps ...it ticks all my boxes.

I've never found this hobby to be one where money buys happiness. Actually, I often found the opposite, with large expenditures bringing little improvement, or being a step backwards.

A little experience and a heaping helping of the right attitude can bring sonic bliss.

Dean.




reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

+1 (nt), posted on July 12, 2024 at 07:51:24
reelsmith.
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 .


reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

Are you still driving your speakers, posted on July 12, 2024 at 08:25:29
E-Stat
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Contributor
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 with the Eagle amplifier?

Perhaps its time to replace as the Stereophile review from 1985 was kind but not overwhelming.

 

I've found, posted on July 12, 2024 at 08:33:07
E-Stat
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Posts: 38789
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 that is most often caused by very close miking. Solo instruments and voices take on giant proportions.

Which if you think about it, such makes perfect sense. Think of the visual analogy taking a close up photo of someones face!

 

Inexpensive Doesn't Mean Bad.........., posted on July 12, 2024 at 08:48:00
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37404
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 The mini system has evolved.....

Philips CDC935 CD changer (as transport) Can get on eBay for $100 incl. shipping.
SMSL SU-1 DAC $80
Aiyima A70 amp (with Oracle 02 op amps and 10A power supply) $230
Micca MB42X G2 speakers $100 (May have availability issues now - selling used for $170)
Douglas Connection coaxial digital cable $100 (May be unobtanium now, uses Vampire Wire)
Micca 14 AWG speaker cables $25
ELIVED Speaker Stands $70

Total system price, under $800.....

It's good enough for me to enjoy music without longing for the big systems. Won't play loud with heavy bass (woofer limitations), but otherwise sublime.

 

but here is the thing ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, posted on July 12, 2024 at 09:03:08
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 here is the thing .... before I got the Eagle I got to do an A/B of the amp with other new amps ... so in other words I heard that particular old amp go against a new Roque audio amp and a couple others and it actually won the comparison or at the worst it sounded great ..... would a mega buck amp get more out of the LRS ? SURE ,,,, but the LRS cost me 600 brand new - what would be the point?

In retrospect the Focals are a much better deal than the LRS because

1) you do not need a preamp to drive them
2) you do not need to buy an amp
3) you dont need interconnect preamp to amp
4) you dont need speaker cables
5) they have a much bigger sweet spot - ridiculously so
5) much more realistic vocals wind instruments
6) room position is much more forgiving
7) much better representation of electric bass
8) much less intrusive looking
9) can be placed closer to walls
10) the LRS need to have the fuses removed to sound best which creates a risk of blowing them up ,,,,,


 

You might try , posted on July 12, 2024 at 09:47:08
E-Stat
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  Since: April 5, 2002
 one of the many inexpensive Chi-Fi amps which lots of inmates are now using. I'm enjoying a Fosi integrated/DAC in the garage system now which likely has a more palpable midrange than the forty year old Eagle.

 

A new GF is exciting at first..., posted on July 12, 2024 at 10:48:49
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 7834
Location: B.C.
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 Sometimes a change is good, exciting, brings out something one hasn't had / heard before. Sometimes that wears off.
I thought I recall you speaking of your LRS's in the same way (Quad electrostat quality) so I did a quick peek. You did make that comment about the LRS and some Altec speakers. That's what reminds me of "new" sometimes being the key...

 

+1 RE: LOL! nt, posted on July 12, 2024 at 14:24:45
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15337
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003

 

RE: A new GF is exciting at first..., posted on July 12, 2024 at 14:28:02
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 the LRS can be astounding for the money and with proper setup and can be spooky real ..... if not there wouldn't be a million rave reviews
....... the Altec 19 did have a crazy holographic quality with a particular 300b mesh plate tube ..... the Focals don't reach that level ......none can match the focal for the money .... can you imagine the price of a set of ALtecs 19s today ..... they would be 20 grand ! ,,,,,, I guess the BEST spealers I ever heard for vocals in order

1) Japaese field coil modified Altec 19 design
2) Quad 57 vintage
3) MBL price no object system with reel to reel
4) Audio Note silver wire speaker with reel to reel
5) Plasma tweeter LANSCHE AUDIO
6) Focal 50 evo

 

Man, that could not be a more accurate statement!!!! Well said!!!!... N/T, posted on July 12, 2024 at 15:51:09
musetap
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  Since: January 28, 2004
 m
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

... until the wife finds out (nt), posted on July 12, 2024 at 23:10:32
13th Duke of Wymbourne
Audiophile

Posts: 2918
Location: Orange Co., Ca
Joined: September 19, 2001
 nt

 

+1 (nt), posted on July 13, 2024 at 06:33:14
Vinyl Valet
Audiophile

Posts: 1360
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Joined: November 13, 2003
 nt

Open up your mind, in pours the trash. - Meat Puppets, 1987

 

On some recordings , posted on July 13, 2024 at 08:24:14
G Squared
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  Since: May 23, 2023
 It's quite nice.
Gsquared

 

Curious, posted on July 13, 2024 at 08:26:03
E-Stat
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 Would you cite an example?

 

Re: Very Close Miking, Etc., posted on July 13, 2024 at 09:16:39
Inmate51
Industry Professional

Posts: 2711
Location: Dallas, TX
Joined: August 12, 2022
 You and Rod are both right, each in your own way. :)

Very large multi-way speakers have an inherent problem in home listening environments. At typical listening distances, there is so much angular difference among the various drivers to the listener's ears that the sound doesn't integrate well. Take the Wilson Audio Alexandria speakers, for example. In my view, a person has to be at least about 25 feet away, and the speakers have to be at least a couple feet from the front wall (due to the rear-aimed tweeter and midrange port), with a minimum 9 to 10 foot ceiling height. Given that the speaker itself is nearly 2-1/2 feet deep, all of this means that a person has to have a very large room in order to receive a reasonably cohesive direct sound.

"Very close miking" has its own issues. The biggest problem is that many instruments radiate different timbres of sound from different parts of the instrument. This is especially significant with instruments which are a "distributed" sound source, such as piano, bass viol (string bass), cello, marimba, and others. But many other instruments also suffer/benefit (depending on the goal) from close miking: acoustic guitar, clarinet, flute, saxophone, voice, and others. Further, if directional microphones are used (typically cardioid), the microphone itself generates a different tonal balance at lower frequencies, emphasizing them as a function of distance to the source, and this effect varies among different microphone models.

*********

We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.

 

RE: heard it with my own ears ......, posted on July 13, 2024 at 11:16:17
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 I have heard the top of the line Wilson in person and felt that the drivers poorly integrated .... not only that the sweet spot becomes a single chair with any movement to the side either way having horrid dispersion issues .... in contrast the best I ever heard was German Physik omnidirectional based on Walsh F drivers ,,,,,, the German Physiks being a far better speaker for most people IMHO

As far as musical timbres I know first hand having played Sax , Trumpet, Flute that the sound drastically changes depending on not only the type of mic but also what part of the instrument is being recoded .... in fact Trumpet players are not really listening to themselves when they play as the sound is traveling away from them ,,,,, Flute its the opposite

 

You're preaching to the choir..., posted on July 13, 2024 at 12:00:09
E-Stat
Audiophile

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Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 I have heard the top of the line Wilson in person and felt that the drivers poorly integrated...

I discovered as a teen I was particularly sensitive to coherency in presentation - which is why I've been a full range stat enthusiast for almost fifty years. While large, the SLs radiate the same signal across every square inch of its thirty two square feet of diaphragm area in front and behind. The angled facets across a 90 degree angle make for a more consistent image regardless of where you are in the room.

 

that's a little bit intimidating ...... n/t, posted on July 13, 2024 at 12:17:40
trioderob
Audiophile

Posts: 852
Joined: May 15, 2015
 ....

 

RE: put together a system that changed my understanding of the hobby ..., posted on July 13, 2024 at 19:24:41
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4430
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
 I haven't heard your system, of course, so I can't comment on its sound. But the logic of the system is quite clear and my suspicion is that one of its virtues is its dynamics, its jump factor.

 

RE: put together a system that changed my understanding of the hobby ..., posted on July 14, 2024 at 11:58:01
fredtr
Audiophile

Posts: 2083
Location: Phoenix
Joined: January 4, 2005
Contributor
  Since: August 16, 2024
 That's great. I had a somewhat similar experience spending time at a different location. I shipped there a Bell Carillon 6060 and picked up some used Era Design speakers for $60 and was pretty happy about the sound.

 

I like this one., posted on July 14, 2024 at 16:44:15
G Squared
Audiophile

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Contributor
  Since: May 23, 2023
 Try Amazing Grace.
Gsquared

 

Found it on Qobuz, posted on July 14, 2024 at 18:10:11
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 38789
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Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 in 192/24 and will give a listen.

 

That is very forward, posted on July 15, 2024 at 16:18:13
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 38789
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Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 I compared it to a Windham Hill recording of Michael Hedges playing Layover. In that track you clearly hear the space between the body of the guitar getting strung and what comes from the frets to the right.

With Amazing Grace, you get fine detail for sure but - the sound source is homogenized. Everything comes from one spot in the center.

Nice music, but I prefer a more natural presentation as you hear it live.

 

Forward was the idea., posted on July 15, 2024 at 17:15:37
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 8758
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
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Contributor
  Since: May 23, 2023
 I have my ProAcs in the system now. My Maggie's are out for this months rotation. Layover is a more normal presentation. BTW great track. On Amazing Grace the guitar is almost as big as the spread between my speakers. Hope you enjoyed the track.
Gsquared

 

We don't have to please anyone but ourselves, posted on July 19, 2024 at 17:20:31
www.records
Audiophile

Posts: 4972
Location: SW Missouri
Joined: December 22, 2003
 it took years to get to where I said "enough" and my system has kept me happy for 17 years. All for the grand sum of $1400.

McIntosh MC40's
Altec Model 17 604-8g
CJ PV-10A preamp
Technics SP-25 ATP-12t tonearm Denon 103R
Denon DVD-3910

 

How did you decide on the Focals?, posted on July 19, 2024 at 23:13:15
chuck55
Audiophile

Posts: 598
Joined: February 10, 2003
 How did you decide on the Focals and other components?

Wat an inspirational thread!

Hi-Fi for the masses. Just what this hobby needs.

 

Probably a good alternative to Audioengine A5+, posted on July 20, 2024 at 10:28:49
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15337
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 I've heard the A5+ are not so good despite the convenience they offer. Perhaps the Focals are a better alternative but they are mucho ugly, looking at the pics.

(Reminds me of the song, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EqFVWzOfN8)

 

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