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Sigma Delta and Ladder DACs

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Posted on July 17, 2024 at 07:59:34
Bigby
Audiophile

Posts: 89
Location: Southern US
Joined: May 28, 2010
 Audio manufacturers make DACs with multiple filters to customize playback.

Do you think they will start making DACs with the option to use either Sigma-Delta and R2R conversion? ...Why?

I've read articles saying the two types of conversion yield significantly different sound. It may be an option some people find beneficial depending on the music genre they are listening to at the moment.

 

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RE: Sigma Delta and Ladder DACs , posted on July 17, 2024 at 10:47:01
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 47271
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 In my experience the various filter settings in Sigma-Delta DACs don't make THAT much of a difference. If you hear any difference it's going to be slight and not night and day.

Based on the R2R DACs that I have had in my system I much prefer the Sigma-Delta units but this obviously comes down to personal preference.

As for providing both Sigma-Delta and R2R designs in one DAC that's not likely to happen (but never say never) because the technologies are so different and you would basically have two DACs in one box.


 

RE: Sigma Delta and Ladder DACs , posted on July 17, 2024 at 11:15:12
13th Duke of Wymbourne
Audiophile

Posts: 2918
Location: Orange Co., Ca
Joined: September 19, 2001
 Unlikely, as they are completely different circuits so you'd be doubling up and, hence, increasing the price. Also it depends on the technical capabilities of the company - making a discrete R-2R requires certain knowledge and experience and I can't imagine the companies that do this as their USP would then add a delta-sigma for comparison. If they didn't fully believe in R-2R in the first place why do it? Same goes for those who make discrete sigma-deltas (eg. dCS, Linn Organik, PS audio & Chord).
If you're 'just' using off-the-shelf chips then you could add both at the cost of cost.

 

That would be a tiny niche market opportunity , posted on July 17, 2024 at 15:56:47
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 38789
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 since the solution is already at hand.

 

Bricasti M21 does it, but it also costs $16K! NT, posted on July 17, 2024 at 16:38:38
voolston
Audiophile

Posts: 3335
Location: New Orleans
Joined: October 14, 1999
 NT
voolston - audiophile by day, music lover by night!

 

Bricasti sells "THREE DACs in one box," and people buy them!, posted on July 24, 2024 at 07:33:56
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7985
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000



Bricasti's top-tier DAC offers DS, RL, and DSD DACs.

And I think they have a new product expected to be revealed this fall.

john

 

RE: Sigma Delta and Ladder DACs , posted on July 28, 2024 at 03:07:40
Paul Wilson
Reviewer

Posts: 100
Location: Southeast USA
Joined: October 7, 2014
 John Marks posted a picture of the Bricasti M21 Platinum Edition which is the exact DAC I previously reviewed and am currently using. It has both a Ladder DAC chip as well as a Sigma Delta DAC chip. The Sigma Delta DAC also works with DSD. The M21 also has a custom, proprietary One Bit DSD DAC chip. There are two basic filter settings, a Linear Phase and a Minimum Phase. When playing PCM, I find the Ladder DAC with the Linear Phase filter to present a more robust, more powerful type of sound. The Sigma Delta DAC with the Minimum Phase filter presents a more laid back, softer type of sound. And these two presentations are different enough to be very noticeable. Overall, I find the M21 PE to be an excellent DAC.

I also recently did a review for Future Audiophile for the Weiss Engineering Helios DAC (which as of 7-28 has yet to run). This DAC is like a veritable recording studio with all the customization it can do. It retails for just slightly more than the Bricasti. Anyone who would like, in fact, to craft different types of sound and is OK with a DAC in the circa $20K price range would be well advised to look further into either one of these two models.

Of course, there are quite a few DACs with the capability of sonic personalization. Generally speaking, they are more costly than a more budget priced DAC which offers no customization. The big question is are the more expensive versions worth the cost? And that is a question only the individual audiophile can answer. We all like different things and have wildly different budgets. Anyone who values a DAC capable of customization be assured, there are quite a few brands and models which offer this capability.

Happy Listening To Everyone...

 

RE: Sigma Delta and Ladder DACs , posted on July 28, 2024 at 15:37:05
Bikefi10
Audiophile

Posts: 21
Joined: December 21, 2022
 Bigby..
I recently read a post stating the Topping E70 velvet can sound very detailed and clear with filters on or very warm and analog if filters are turned off. Poster prefered the filters off mode.
The poster claimed he prefers the E70V over a $3k priced unit he had. Dont remember model he gave.
Maybe this comes close to the R2R / Sigma-Delta sound in one unit.
Anyone else have this experiance with the E70V?

 

RE: Bricasti sells "THREE DACs in one box," and people buy them!, posted on July 30, 2024 at 10:01:09
Bigby
Audiophile

Posts: 89
Location: Southern US
Joined: May 28, 2010
 Hi John,

I did get the Bricasti M21. I use the Delta Sigma DAC for music with a lot of vocals (Jazz) and the Ladder DAC for everything else.

My ears aren't good enough to discern a difference between the filters.

Thank you for your review. I do read them often. They are very helpful because all our local dealers have closed.

Alan


 

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