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Digital coax cable

204.113.88.211
Posted on July 15, 2024 at 15:39:50
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 In a month or so I am going to try an external DAC in my system. Probably the Geshelli J2S or the SMSL D300. Now comes the Great Digital Coax Cable Hunt.

I assume that a digital cable is as critical as interconnects to the sound of a system. But when I started looking at digital cables, my head started swimming. So many cables, so little time.

Given the modest price of the DACs listed above, spending hundreds on a digital cable seems a bit foolish. Pangea has several reasonably priced cables, but the Audioquest Cinnamon was cited by someone as even better. (Yes, personal opinion but almost everything in this crazy hobby is.)

Also, does length matter? I read than a digital cable should be at least 1.5 meters. But the DAC will be right behind the CD player/transport, only about 6 inches away. 1+ meters is a lot of extra cable to have to deal with between two components.

I'd love to find a used cable to sidestep break-in. All thoughts are welcome because I hardly know where to start.

Thanks, gang.

 

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There is something to , posted on July 15, 2024 at 16:49:05
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 38789
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 the need for at least five feet to prevent signal reflections as explained by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio.

Digital cable composition does make a difference but you don't have to go nuts. I tried an entry level Blue Jeans cable that works fine but sure was BRIGHT! prior to breakin with its teflon dielectric. I'm presently using a DH Labs cable terminated with BNC at one end.

PM me and I'll be happy to send you the BJC as I really have no need for it anymore. It should provide a good start.

Click here for more info on it.

 

Instead of an external DAC and Coax Cable, why not buy a digital player..., posted on July 16, 2024 at 00:07:34
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23968
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 With a digital player, you don't need a digital coax cable. You can simply plug your external USB hard drive directly into the digital player and then use analog cables from the player's output to your preamp or your power amplifier.

I use a FiiO R9, which has eight DACs running in parallel on each channel. It has both balanced and unbalanced analog outputs. I'm using balanced XLR cables from my R9's outputs to my preamp's balanced inputs. The R9 sounds as good or better than any other DAC or DAP that I've ever heard, yet it costs only $1,500 from Amazon. It's probably the most economical high-end DAP/DAC available anywhere.

If you want the very best sound quality, listen to DSD256. That's my favorite digital format and I have just over 400 albums in DSD256. The FiiO R9 will play all two-channel digital formats up through DSD512 directly from an external USB hard drive.

I don't know how much you intend to spend on an external DAC and coax cable, but the FiiO R9 is my choice for the best sounding and most versatile high-end digital component available anywhere. Check out its description on the FiiO website.

 

RE: Instead of an external DAC and Coax Cable, why not buy a digital player..., posted on July 16, 2024 at 02:37:10
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2453
Joined: September 27, 2004
 Horrid looking thing, but it does feature the excellent ESS Sabre 9038PRO DAC.

The question one should ask is why get a stand-alone DAC? These are small circuit boards that can easily be installed within a preamps or integrated enclosure - thus doing away for the need and cost of a separate enclosure, power supply and cables. And no cable has ever improved sound quality so the more you can ditch, the better!

What does a stand-alone DAC do that the same DAC built into a preamp or amp doesn't do?

Look for example at the NAD M66. Same 9038 DAC, but also BluOS streamer, phono stage, analogue and digital preamp, Dirac Live DSP room correction, DLBC, etc - all with no cables. OK it's 3 times the price but cheap compared with a pile of cable-connected separates.

 

RE: Instead of an external DAC and Coax Cable, why not buy a digital player..., posted on July 16, 2024 at 07:19:02
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 47271
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Going in circles again ;-)

"What does a stand-alone DAC do that the same DAC built into a preamp or amp doesn't do? "

The ability to try different DACs w/o throwing out the more costly entire system.



 

RE: Digital coax cable, posted on July 16, 2024 at 07:22:02
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 47271
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 IMHO - don't fret over the digital cable. Try whatever you have on hand or buy a cheapie off Amazon or from Best Buy. How does it sound? If you don't like it or want to experiment THEN buy some designer audiophile cables. Just my 2-cents worth.

P.S. I've read good things about the modestly priced Geshelli J2S but in my case I would want USB and all the optional upgrades which drives the price up.



 

Please email me through AA, posted on July 16, 2024 at 08:01:10
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7985
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 Hi.

YES, length matters!

john

 

RE: Digital coax cable, posted on July 16, 2024 at 11:15:47
Dynamite Ham
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: State of Confusion, U.S.A.
Joined: February 24, 2005
 For the past ten years I've been using a Kimber Select 1.5 meter digital coaxial cable, first between my transport and dac, more recently between my network player and dac. Price was right around $1,000 US for the cable.

About a year ago, just for fun I ordered a "Nordost" Chinese knockoff cable from AliExpress. The cable is approximately 18 inches long and cost $16 delivered.

The Kimber sounds great, very transparent and resolving, with no humps, bumps or lumps in the frequency range.

The faux Nordost sounds surprisingly good, with a more forward midrange and a slightly chunkier sound than the Kimber.

I much prefer the Kimber, but I could live with the Chinese cable if I hadn't first heard the Kimber.

 

That is exactly what you do, posted on July 16, 2024 at 11:53:51
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 38789
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 each time he expresses his opinion.

Time to let go.

 

RE: That is exactly what you do, posted on July 16, 2024 at 13:39:00
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 47271
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 True.

I'm not saying that an "all-in-one" is right or wrong vs separates. But I -AM- telling him once again what the differences are.



 

Why????, posted on July 16, 2024 at 13:58:07
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 38789
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 But I -AM- telling him once again what the differences are.

Do you honestly think nagging will change his preference? You also drone on endlessly as to how you cannot hear differences with crappy power supplies while others clearly do.

Get over it!

 

RE: Digital coax cable, posted on July 16, 2024 at 17:39:15
scriabin
Audiophile

Posts: 94
Joined: August 29, 2003
 I have read from Belden that you need at least 1.5 meters for a digital cable (they give a scientific explanation). Your Kimber is 1.5 meters. It would be interesting to hear your description of sound quality if you had the knock off in 1.5 meters.

 

RE: I Agree, posted on July 16, 2024 at 20:02:02
niws
Audiophile

Posts: 805
Location: Northeast
Joined: September 4, 2003
 I agree with Abe about the digital cable. I wouldn't put much money or effort into it until you decide which dac you're going to buy. The d300 and J2 sound a little different so it's probaby not worthwhile trying to figure out which cable is best at this time. The length of the cable does seem to matter a little so get at least 1 meter and make sure it has an impedance of 75 ohms.

 

Are you going to use your Arcam Diva CD92 as a transport?, posted on July 17, 2024 at 01:54:04
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10183
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007



If so, I see that it has an optical, as well as a coax out.

When I ordered my Geshelli J2 DAC, I already had a 1.5M length of the Blue Jeans BJC which E-Stat has graciously offered you, so I used that at first. But I became curious about the Lifatec glass Toslink cable (link below), after reading so many positive comments about it on the Asylum and elsewhere. It was an improvement over the BJC in my system of a Cambridge Audio CXC transport and the aforementioned Geshelli J2.

I'm no cable expert, but I believe that the impedance issue length requirement doesn't apply to optical the way it does with the S/PDIF, which means you could buy only the length you need. A 20" length is $129 so not crazy 'audiophile' prices.

I was skeptical, but the Lifatec offered a 30-day return policy, and as soon as I compared it to the BJC, I knew I was going to keep it.






 

RE: Why????, posted on July 17, 2024 at 02:45:37
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2453
Joined: September 27, 2004
 So on that basis, integrated amps and CD players are unwelcome. Are we never going to look at audio in a way that we regard almost everything else we buy? Cars - do we choose who we buy the engine, body, seats, etc from? We normally buy from the single manufacturer we favour, and this is normally a well matched offering that meets the spec / price point we are content with. Even washing machines now have spin dryers built in!

I have no problem if you want a dozen boxes from lots of brands, connected by a pile of cables, but there's no reason to pick me out for criticism just because I express my views, any more than you should be criticised for your multi-box views.

Let's stay friendly though. These forums are as much about answering newcomers' questions as anything else, and a broad spectrum of advice may be appreciated - that advice won't be the same from all of us, nor should it be.

 

I trust, posted on July 17, 2024 at 05:46:55
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 38789
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 you meant this for Abe. :)

While I am another who has six boxes from different brands (since no one company is a master of all IMHO), I think that constant rehashing of this and other topics is unnecessary. My situation is not yours.

To each his own!

BTW: Porsche uses Brembo calipers, Michelin tires, Borg Warner turbochargers, Recaro seats, Bose radios, Volkswagen tire repair kits, Hella LED headlights, etc.

 

RE: Digital coax cable, posted on July 17, 2024 at 07:02:23
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 47271
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I've read about the 1.5m or greater digital cable length in audio publications. Do you have a link from Belden that suggests the same? Thanks.



 

RE: Why????, posted on July 17, 2024 at 08:01:32
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 47271
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I'm not trying to change his preference. He likes his setup. I like mine.

I never said I can't hear differences between power supplies but unlike you I'm not hell bent that LPS's are always better than properly designed switchers.

Is it your job to monitor which inmates and how often I interact with them on the Asylum?

Get over it.



 

RE: Digital coax cable, posted on July 17, 2024 at 09:32:20
Dynamite Ham
Audiophile

Posts: 246
Location: State of Confusion, U.S.A.
Joined: February 24, 2005
 I've owned six or eight digital coaxial cables over the years and the 1.5 meter lengths always sounded best. Supposed to stop internal reflections which can affect input receiver timing errors.

 

RE: Digital coax cable, posted on July 17, 2024 at 14:30:32
scriabin
Audiophile

Posts: 94
Joined: August 29, 2003
 Abe, This link is a AXPONA two part lecture by Galen Gareis of Belden. I contacted Blue Jeans about digital cable length. Blue Jeans and Galen Gareis replied back to me. (I mis-spoke as the length is a meter or longer).
This should be part 2 - Start at 12 minutes and continue listening through 16 minutes (too short)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gImRFQ4xsM0&t=1s

Here is Galen's reply to me.
Hi Steve,

Keep the SPDIF cable a meter or longer and you'll be fine. True that digital is high enough frequency that it has RL (load mis-match) and SRL (cable geometry variations) to manage. Better quality cable can be shorter as it has better center impedance for RL and a better geometry stability for SRL.

Attached is the bulk cable spec we use for serial digital, and it has excellent RL measured into a FIXED 75-OHMS LOAD. This is worst case as the SRL will make it worse if the cable center impedance is off 75-ohm.

Best,
Galen

 

Thanks!, posted on July 18, 2024 at 06:50:58
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 47271
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I haven't watched the entire video yet but as an aside, I've used quality RG6/U generic 75-Ohm COAX (like Cable TV COAX) for SPDIF DAC cables with outstanding results. No designer brand audiophile SPDIF cable required. ;-)



 

RE: Digital coax cable, posted on July 18, 2024 at 15:54:19
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Thanks, gang.

I haven't been able to check in for a few days. I'm looking forward to going through all the information everyone contributed. It should be a great help.

 

RE: Instead of an external DAC and Coax Cable, why not buy a digital player..., posted on July 18, 2024 at 15:59:13
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Thanks for the suggestion. I like physical media, so I'm sticking with trying an external DAC. The Rotel CD11 sounds great but so many audiophiles use an external DAC that it seems worth a try. I'm in the mood to play with components again and a DAC is one area that would be new.

 

RE: Instead of an external DAC and Coax Cable, why not buy a digital player..., posted on July 18, 2024 at 18:14:37
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23968
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > I like physical media, so I'm sticking with trying an external DAC.

Actually, the FiiO R9 is an external DAC. It's a digital player, a digital streamer, a digital preamp, an external DAC, and just about everything else digital that you can imagine. Moreover, it contains two of the best DAC chips available today, the ES9038PRO ESS DACs, each containing eight DACs configured in parallel for each stereo channel.You can do anything you want with the FiiO R9, but you might find that playing digital files directly from your hard drive plugged into the R9 is even a better way to enjoy digital music.

On the other hand, you can still buy a digital cable and connect your transport to the R9, too. It does virtually everything as you will see from the following link.

Good luck!
John Elison

 

RE: Instead of an external DAC and Coax Cable, why not buy a digital player..., posted on July 22, 2024 at 03:39:49
ppopp
Audiophile

Posts: 3009
Location: OR
Joined: October 10, 2002
 Which website do you go to to find albums in DSD256?

I've been using a Fiio DAP as a digital playback device since you suggested it in 2020. Very impressive sound.
Since added a used Chord 2qute DAC. Good results.

 

RE: Instead of an external DAC and Coax Cable, why not buy a digital player..., posted on July 22, 2024 at 04:09:41
ppopp
Audiophile

Posts: 3009
Location: OR
Joined: October 10, 2002
 Not all DACs using the same chip sound the same.

 

RE: Instead of an external DAC and Coax Cable, why not buy a digital player..., posted on July 23, 2024 at 05:44:08
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23968
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > I've been using a Fiio DAP as a digital playback device since you suggested it in 2020.

Check out the new FiiO R9. This player/DAC/preamp is absolutely phenomenal, and it's available from Amazon for only $1,500.

> Which website do you go to to find albums in DSD256?

There are a variety of websites that sell DSD256 albums. Here are a few of them:

PS Audio's Octave Records


Native DSD

Audiophile Style

I'm sure there are others. Just do a search for DSD256 Downloads.

Happy listening!

PS. Here's a good album to begin with: DSD256 Sampler for $18.49

 

RE: Instead of an external DAC and Coax Cable, why not buy a digital player..., posted on July 23, 2024 at 05:58:48
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23968
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > Not all DACs using the same chip sound the same.

Good point!
The analog output stage probably has more impact on sound quality than the DAC.

On the other hand, all the FiiO players I've owned have sounded awesome to me. I discovered FiiO five years ago and I was significantly impressed with their sound quality from the get-go.

Happy listening!

 

note to E-Stat, posted on July 25, 2024 at 17:31:15
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Your offer of the Blue Jeans cable is great. It looks like a good entry-level cable. I'd be happy to buy it from you or at least pay for shipping.

The problem is I don't know what "PM me" means, hence this public note. If you want to e-mail me through AA, that would be fine.

Regardless, thanks for your generous offer.

 

Arcam Diva CD92 as a transport, posted on July 25, 2024 at 17:42:09
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Hi, 1973shovel.

The delay in reply is because I just got home from an extended stay away.

Alas, the Arcam CD92 died from lack of use. That necessitated getting a new CD player. Somehow I got lucky and picked up a Rotel CD11, an astonishingly good player for the ridiculous price of $600 MSRP or $400 on sale! It is superb in my system, besting my far more expensive Cary 300/303 that also died on me.

The CD11 will be used initially. Time will tell if a dedicated transport will be sought, depending on the cost of the DAC chosen.


 

RE: note to E-Stat, posted on July 28, 2024 at 11:54:32
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14381
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 PM me = Personal Message me.

 

PM - personal message, posted on July 28, 2024 at 15:40:16
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Got it. Thanks.

Of course, I don't think I can send E-Stat a personal message because I don't have a cell phone.

 

The scourge of abbreviations strikes again!, posted on July 30, 2024 at 10:58:30
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10183
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 Personally, I blame texting and cell phones. It's getting so those of us who don't live on ours require the Enigma machine to decipher Asylum posts.

An email would qualify as a private message, in this particular case.

 

RE: The scourge of abbreviations strikes again!, posted on July 30, 2024 at 11:23:51
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 11158
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 when some people use the acronyms around here as well as work, home, business etc. we will all need an acronym dictionary in every smart phone built in. It's ridiculous



 

OMG!, posted on July 30, 2024 at 12:49:29
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10183
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 You are so right! LOL

Sorry, Story, I couldn't help myself. [insert annoying smiley face here]

 

Rotel CD11, posted on July 30, 2024 at 12:56:02
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10183
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 It seems like you got yourself a good deal on that player. It has no optical out, so my Lifatec suggestion will do you no good.

Good luck with your new DAC when you get it.

 

RE: Rotel CD11, posted on July 30, 2024 at 20:31:22
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Definitely a bargain. The regular retail price is a great buy, but the sale price made it a fantastic deal. I still have a hard time believing how great the sound is. It took my system up a level.

 

RE: The scourge of abbreviations strikes again!, posted on July 30, 2024 at 20:33:30
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 I tried to send an e-mail through AA, but it said the inmate doesn't take unsolicited e-mails. What to do?

 

"inmate doesn't take unsolicited e-mails", posted on July 31, 2024 at 01:59:27
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10183
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 In one of the Asylums he frequents, start a new post with "Ping E-Stat" in the subject line. Tell him in the post that you'd like to take him up on his Blue Jeans cable offer, and ask him to email you via the Asylum.

And by the way, your Asylum setting is also set for: This Inmate does not accept Unsolicited Email, the same as E-Stat's, so you're going to have to change that setting so that he can email you.

Good luck.

.

 

It will be interesting, posted on July 31, 2024 at 02:06:24
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10183
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
 ...to see if an external DAC is a step up for you. I had been using a Marantz 6006 CD player, which I liked very much, but tried the Geshelli J2 out of curiosity, and ended up keeping it.

Please keep us posted.

 

RE: "inmate doesn't take unsolicited e-mails", posted on July 31, 2024 at 12:22:33
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 I had no idea that my settings included no unsolicited e-mails. That will be changed. Thanks for letting me know and telling me how to get a message to E-Stat.

 

Geshelli, posted on July 31, 2024 at 12:42:27
psgary
Audiophile

Posts: 8142
Location: So. California
Joined: January 24, 2001
 Thanks for letting me know about your experience with Geshelli. That makes me even more interested in trying one of their DACs.

The Rotel CD11 took the system up a level, so it's a bit difficult to believe that it can get even better but it will be great if the sound improves. I'm in the mood to play with the system a bit, which makes an external DAC a logical step.

I've been playing with power cords and ICs. As soon as any changes to the system are clear with those, a DAC is next on the list.

 

Have fun! (nt), posted on July 31, 2024 at 18:04:58
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 10183
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007

 

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