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Seems all the streaming services are offering CD quality streams for $10/mo now. Question is...How to get that lossless stream to the stereo via a Pi? IOW, what software would one use to access these services and get it out* of the Pi lossessly (presumably controlling it all with a smartphone app)? I've read some software or hardware might downsample/downgrade the CD Quality lossless to something lesser, so really wondering how to avoid that. Safe to assume any software that does this will also be able to access lossless files stored on a USB stick plugged into the Pi? TIA.
*Getting it out of the Pi could be via the Pi's USB, A DAC HAT, or digital output HAT feeding a DAC.
marc g. - audiophile by day, music lover by night
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First you have to go Ethernet to stream and with the RPI only the model 4 has integrated Ethernet. All the others use USB for Ethernet and WIFI and if your using a USB DAC then all crap happens because the streams are all synchronized and everything sounds like crap.
Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
Having used both the 3 and the 4, both wired and wifi, I can't say that I ever heard a difference. Where I did hear a difference was with power supplies. Battery sounded best.
I think Gordon is a USB guy and USB out of the Pi3, which shares the USB ports with Ethernet, does suck.
Pi4 USB, while better, I still prefer a really decent S/PDIF 'hat'.
I'm ordering a RPI 4 and was just going to use usb to start with as I thought both of my dacs had usb inputs. Good thing I double checked because the dac I'll likely use the most with it doesn't have a usb input. It has optic, coax, and rca inputs. What hat do you feel would give the highest quality output if I buy the board and hat seperate? Right now I'm leaning toward the Signature model as it offers re-clocking and galvanic isolation as features. The signature model comes with diet pi installed but after reading some of the comments on the board I'm thinking maybe PCP might be a better option for me.
Edits: 05/27/21
I have the older Allo DigiOne 'hat' sitting on an older Pi3 and it sounds great but if I had it to do over I'd get the 'Signature' model.
Don't forget the need for two power supplies and a rather large case for the 'Signature' model.
In my experience, the Pi 4 has a bit better WiFi implementation.
Acster,
First off all the streaming services have some way of flow control. They do end to end testing all the time and will resample content to control that flow. In all cases for which we tested WIFI was always slower than Ethernet and because of that the ratio of resampling was always worse on WIFI.
Second especially on any of the PI based streamers WIFI is a USB access and think about it: You are pulling samples from the server at the same rate as you are pumping out the samples to the dac. This synchronous burden on the USB always sounds bad. This also happens on all versions of PI below 4 because they are all USB Ethernet adapter units.
It's easy to hear the difference.
Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
I don't hear a difference, but it isn't like I don't hear a difference on other tweaks. Some are obvious and others just aren't. I can hear a difference between battery power and SMPS power to my RPi and DAC, but not this, and I tend to think these are roughly the same kind of change. I'd rather swap caps around in my tube gear, and tubes for that matter, they make more of a difference. But whether that difference is better is always questionable.
The main point of running hardwired Ethernet (for me anyway) is the unpredictable nature of RF and Wifi. Wifi performance (not just speed but reliability) varies based on location in your home, obstructions to the signal, interference from other RF sources including cordless phones, smartphones, microwave ovens, electric motors, neighbors on the same or adjacent channel, how many other devices are sharing your Wifi, etc.If something isn't working right on your Wifi network, there are hundreds of moving variables to consider.
With hardwired Ethernet all of those variables are completely eliminated - it's the best you can do with no Wifi troubleshooting guess work.
Will Wifi work? Of course! Given a choice, hardwired Ethernet is the way to go.
Edits: 05/31/21
I use PiCorePlayer to do this... It is basically free software that I donate to once in awhile. It has interfaces to Qobuz and Tidal for Free also.And yes it can stream lossless from a USB Stick, or Drive or NAS. And even DSD Hi-Res audio if you have it. No problem.
https://www.picoreplayer.org/
Edits: 05/22/21
I don't see a PiCore player app in the Apple app store, so how do you control it with a smartphone? I'm a bit familiar with LMS having used it way back when I had a Squeezebox 2, and recall how much easier it was to control with the ipeng app than the supplied remote control. I see that ipeng is still available and wondered if that would be my best option.
marc g. - audiophile by day, music lover by night
No. iPeng is not your best option.IMO "Material Skin" UI by Craig Drummond is by far the best option out there.
You simply activate it under LMS settings and plugins.
It's opensource, it's well maintained and offers great features and design and its highly customizable.
On any browser on any platform, you enter:http://192.xxx.x.xxx:9000/material/
The Material Skin UI will pop up.
U bookmark it.
And then you add it to your home screen by using exactly that feature offered by your favorite bowser.
You won't notice a difference between a regular app and this browser based app.
You'll have the same great UI on all platforms!
I own all LMS control apps on most major platforms - incl. iPeng. I am not looking back.
Save your money!
And enjoy!
****************************************************
blog latest: *** The Audio Streaming Series - tuning kit pCP ***
Edits: 05/23/21
IMO "Material Skin" UI by Craig Drummond is by far the best option out there.
I have both and really don't like losing functionality using Material Skin.
Yes, iPeng is your only option with Apple as far as I know.... I bought an Apple phone a few years ago, to help people with Apple Phones, so I purchased iPeng as well...
IMHO iPeng is a 'Sorry' App...
Get a cheap used old Android Phone with no phone plan and attach it to your WiFi network and you'll have your choice of Great Apps like Squeeze Ctrl, Orange Squeeze etc....
Thank you for that clarification. During some initial research, I never really could understand how to control PiCore remotely. You may be right about ipeng, but it sure was a godsend over the supplied remote that came with the Squeezebox 2, such that it made me want to use the Squeezebox more. What a fantastic product that was. Mine took a fall and the display got damaged and then the rubberized outer case got really sticky for some reason so I had to trash it.
Wouldn't you know, I just tossed an android based phone and tablet as part of getting rid of my excess clutter of old devices :-(
marc g. - audiophile by day, music lover by night
The raspberry Pi with PiCorePlayer will sound far better than a Squeezebox Touch. When I had the SBTs years ago, I never used the remote... I used my Laptop with the LMS web Control...
this is misleading... perhaps I'm missing something...
ethernet to a Touch and analog out from there sounds better to me than a RaspPi w/ a dac hat...RaspPi USB to an external dac and I agree...
No way should a Touch with Analog out sound better than a Rpi with Hat into a DAC.EDIT: --- As Abe pointed out... If you are comparing the Analog out of an RPi, with the Analog out of a Touch, or a DAC hat of an Rpi rather than a Digitial Hat you may be right... I don't know, I never bothered with Analog of either the Touch or the Rpi. Or bothered comparing a DAC hat of a an Rpi. It's just not worth it, with better Audio Solutions available.
Edits: 05/24/21 05/24/21
sorry but I do not understand what you're saying...
to be clear- raspPi with dac hat... then you need analog out right ? Boss , Katana, etc doesn't matter... a Touch sounds better to me..
I even tried the pi with usb to the Touch (with EDO app)...didn't like it... ethernet to the Touch was better then the above... you may be under estimating how good a Touch is
You need the Boss or Katana or whatever Output.... Maybe that's why it doesn't sound that good to you?The Analog output of an RPi is the little Hole on the Rpi Board. The DAC Hat Outputs are on the DAC Hat itself. (And yes I know that they are Analog, but that's not what we're talking about here - Because, if you don't configure your Rpi Correctly and plug the Correct Holes, it won't work right).
As an aside, I spend zero time comparing Rpi DAC Hats or Analog Audio, as there are much better audio options for the Rpi. I really don't think the DAC Hats or Analog Audio or Squeezebox Touch internal DACs for that matter warrant that much discussion on Audiophile Forums.
Edits: 05/24/21 05/24/21 05/24/21 05/24/21
nope... that wasn't it
Interesting. You spent 0 time on HAT comparison.
And then - with that extremely limited experience, you spread an highly questionable opinion.
And on top we all know you love antiquated SPDIF.
Yep. That's you.
Now. You'll learn something.
Have a look at the latest Allo Boss2 HAT review and measurements.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/allo-boss2-review-stereo-streamer.22916/
From a measurements perspective it plays in the upper league.
And it does that at a $99 ticket. That'd be a very valid solution for many people out there.
And FYI. The Allo Katana is no longer being sold. And that for quite some time. It's been a great HAT DAC, with a class leading class-A output stage. I still own it. I am pretty sure Allo took it out due to economic reasons ... and the obvious inhouse competition with the Revolution DAC.
What you get with a USB DAC is higher flexibility.
Enjoy.
****************************************************
blog latest: *** The Audio Streaming Series - tuning kit pCP ***
nt
I still have an older Rpi Model 3 with SPDIF DigiOne HAT.
With 9 Raspberry Pi around the House, I've got many iterations from the Very first Rpi in 2012 a Model 'B' with a 1/4 gig of Ram and only Analog Output, to a succession of Hifi Berry Hats, Allo Hats, Boss DAC Hat and others....
I've never gotten rid of one of them. They all run the Latest Version of PiCorePlayer Too!
nothing wrong with my set up..
please provide a model of a dac hat with analog out that you have compared to ethernet to a Touch and analog out that sounds better...
imo dac hats are not as good
As I said I don't compare frivolous Analog outs or DAC Hats, as there are better Audio options out there... You may be right The Touch might sound better... So, you Win!
its not a contest man...
its about putting out a blanket statement that has some holes...
I truly respect your opinions and also the help that you willing to supply to anyone who asks...
nt
I think he's comparing the Touch analog out to the analog output from a Pi HAT DAC. And then he agrees that a Pi driving an outboard DAC can sound better.I think HAT DACs are OK but not great sounding, regardless of how much soundchekk shills for Allo ;-) The design constraints are too great on that tiny PCB.
I have the Allo Boss DAC which I believe you have as well in your travel setup. The Allo Katana is supposed to be better but then you end up with multiple HATs and power supplies.... an unwieldy Jenga-Pi mess.
Edits: 05/24/21 05/24/21
"I think he's comparing the Touch analog out to the analog output from a Pi HAT DAC. And then he agrees that a Pi driving an outboard DAC can sound better."
correct... mac mini server and I have (2) pi clients to (2) dacs... I tried a 3rd pi w/ hat dac to my 3rd setup and the touch sounded better...
the simple pi setups with passive case are awesome...
a pi with dac hat and cooling fan etc not so good for me...
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