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I'm asking opinions on output tube types and their inherient sound qualities. What are some of the better types for low level classical use. One quality would have to be good detail with large orchestras while maintaining a good midrange.The one tube I always favored was the humble EL34. One reason I was looking at the old Dynaco reissued kits now available. I always had an eye on the Bottlehead 2A3's or 300's. However the price is a little high. My only experience with a SET was 30 years ago. And all I could remember was it was "picky" with speakers and even some music. It didn't handle "big" music well. Not loud but complex stuff.
Right now I'm using a Sherwood S-5000 with 7189's that has been completely Samra-ised. One HECK of a tough act to follow!!!! Obviously I'm not looking to "upgrade". Simply looking at different flavors of musical enjoyment.
charles
Edits: 06/23/14Follow Ups:
With your speakers the Bottlehead 300B is not going to have enough power.
You say you like how the good old EL-34 sounds so the ST-70 could be the answer you are looking for.I've heard Bob's ST120 in my system and thought it sounded good. I have used the board Bob uses in an ST-70 EL34 rebuild for a friend and it is amazing.
Edits: 06/23/14
+1 on either of those Latino's. Wonderful sounding no frills reliable designs.
Wonder how that would sound?
I really like my NAD - as SS amps go! It sounds pretty good with just a passive (volume pot) driving it. But adding a 300b preamp - hummmmmmm!
charles
JMO, you don't need a preamp that uses the EXPENSIVE 300B, which happens to be a power O/P type. DIY something built around 12B4s, for which scads of designs, including 1 by yours truly, are available.
Eli D.
300b does sound like the your just adding needless expense into a design.
Considering there are plenty of wonderful smaller tubes that can do a "similar" job.
charles
EL84s for their speed and bass... but not SS
I don't think there's any point in talking about the sound of output tubes by themselves. There is some point in looking at how they function in the whole amplification chain.
For example. The gain of the output tube determines how many stages you need, or what mu input tubes you can use. Example - I use 4P1L PSE outputs with a mu of 10, so I can use 4P1L input tubes and stay with 2 stages. All DHT. Use a 300b and you need a higher mu input tube for 2 stages. Typical choice - 12AX7 which will make the amp sound like a 12AX7. So say goodbye to nice DHT input tubes unless you go with 3 stages.
A veil lifted for me what I had 2 stages of DHTs.
...look at the Transcendent Sound Son Of Beast kit.
Charles, the Bottlehead kits are not cheap but are a true value amazing sound.
What speakers will you be using?
What size room?
My speakers that I plan on keeping are Zaph Audio SR-71 monitors with a Paradigm powered sub. They work for me and after 20-30 years, they seem to be the best suited speaker for my taste.
The sensativity is around 87-88db. And bass (below 70-80hz or so) should not be a problem using a powered sub directly off the passive preamp source.
How does a 300b sound with complex classical music?
Also being I'm moving to Arizona in less than a year - how is the heat output of those things????
My needs are purly musical sound. I'm not one that is interested in dead on balls test tones!
charles
With those speakers and their power handling ability, I would think any kind of SET would be a very difficult match, if not, impossible. The amp would run out of gas very soon and audible clipping and distortion will happen.
I have an old pair of DCM Timewindows which almost share the sensitivity rating and power handling of your stated speakers and I finally settled on one of Bob Latino's ST-70 kits. It is a match made in heaven. Very musical, good soundstage and a terrific bottom end. I'm using the Genalex KT-88s which are highly regarded, well made, durable and sound fantastic. A great combo.
I also use SETs such as the Bottlehead Paramount fitted with the 300B bottles as well as the Bottlehead Stereomour with the 2A3 bottles. Wonderful big sound on both but the speakers must be very efficient or just don't bother. Anything above a 92dB rating will pair well. 100dB would be sweet!
+1 on the Latino ST70 / Genalex KT 88 combo......especially with the Russian oil caps and NOS Mullard drivers. A surprisingly strong 40-45 watts that comes with a nice touch of sweetness as well.
Impedance swings and low sensitivity do not mate at all with 2 to 8 watt single ended amps. "Complex" music just means that it needs to deliver sustained wattage with low distortion.
Pick your speakers first and your amp second.
I am using 300b with 100db speakers and they handle complex very lous music very well. The question is not music/amp the question is speaker/amp.
I fell that I am VERY happy with my speakers. So the change is up to the amp or a preamp.
Bottlehead has a 300b preamp?
300b are pretty cool as a pre-amp. THey can impart some of that DHT sound. I have a soft spot for 10/801a and 26 as well.
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