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and not knowing much about classical music other than I really like it, I went to a section called something like " 10 essential classical recordings" One of the recordings I got is The Glenn Gould Edition of Bach's The Well-Tempered Clavier. Well his piano playing is indeed phenominal, inspiring, compelling, etc. But through the entire 2 cd's he is softly talking, grunting, and moaning. It sounds like Frankenstein got really good on his piano. I find it humourous on one level but ultimately it is very distracting.
Does anyone else know what I'm talking about?
I'd like to get more of his stuff but would like to know if he carries on this way on all his recordings.
Thanks,
Patrick
Follow Ups:
I don't know enough jazz music to comment on this in a Jazz context, but my $0.02 as far as classical music is concerned is that it's never acceptable. Though it can be amusing at first, eventually I become more irritated than amused if the "extra accompaniment" is continual and loud enough to be noticeable. I don't even like hearing Toscanini shouting at everyone to play louder during the "Dies Irae" of his otherwise great recording of Verdi's Requiem (unlike my partner, who thinks that's just a hoot).What really floors me about most of the humming I hear (Gould included) is that it's *out of tune*! I can't understand how world-class musicians, who presumably have very good ears, can't hear how out of tune their humming or singing is, and the resulting dissonance they create when their 'contribution' is heard simultaneously with the real music.
The only other possible explanation is that they don't care, and this is where it becomes offensive to me: somewhere along the line these artists must decide that their right to indulge in this behaviour is more important than both the composer's intentions and the audience's pleasure. Dedicated fans can overlook this, of course; but I wonder how many more fans these musicians might have / have had if they were / had been more disciplined?
I also wonder what their reaction was the first time one of their teachers noticed this tendency and told them to knock it off. "Oh, but I'm going to be such a genius, don't you know, that rule won't apply to me."
And please don't tell me that we just have to accept this as part of their genius. There are plenty of great artists who don't do this--the vast majority, in fact--and who are content to express themselves *through their instrument*. Are you listening to Bach, or are you listening to Glenn Gould?
djprobed
djprobed,I am a big fan of Gould's playing and enjoy it enough to listen past the humming- more or less in the way I tune out the surface noise of LPs. In fact as I mentioned in the post below, I got to appreciate it as the human presence in his recordings. For some reason it makes that perfect, studied playing more personal.
It's been a curiosity to me whether those around Gould - esp. record producers- ever took him to task for the humming. It was commented on consistently through his whole career, though barely present on the 1955 Goldberg Variations it did get worse.So many performers make dramatic movements and noises- and probably unaware in their intensity. I think their concentration on the music just obliterates every other consideration. Early on, Bartolli was almost unwatchable in those strange, twisted expressions and Richard Goode likewise can resemble a beached fish being tortured. Remember the Bernstein Hop levitating over the platform? Igor kipnis can be heard breathing on most recordings. Of course in the jazz world everyone is talking all time.
I don't know- I hate audience noises at concerts, but the musicians' noises are part of the experience.
Cheers,
While not all, some musicians are ego maniacs who could give a flying about what people think of their extraneous noises. Some even take it as an affront that the listener shouldn't accept the noises as sacred droplets from the god's art.
Saw them at Lewis and Clark College in Portland and during one intense passage, (sorry, don't remember the piece) Sara, the cellist, closed her eyes, threw her head back, and gave out a couple of audible sighs. It was...provocative.
Yes, well that's why they are commonly known as the Erotica trio...
nt
Watch the Diana Krall "Live In Paris" DVD. She hums/moans along with her playing. This is a WONDERFUL DVD, even if you're not a big Krall fan.
-Mike...
Most infamously, Keith Jarrett in jazz. Oscar Peterson does the same, though not quite so loudly. This has been discussed before here, and there are many who say this does not bother them, but I have to admit that I would prefer not to hear it.I wonder if some recording engineers find a way to mute this kind of thing, and I wonder if somebody like Keith Jarrett actually wants the grunts and groans to be on the recordings...
If you get The Absolute Sound, there is a letter to the editor from Keith Jarrett in this months issue. He is complaining about a reviewer who criticized, among other things, the moaning. Interesting exchange.
Moaning or Alannis Morissette doing that corner of the bench thing.A video of Jarrett or Peterson moaning wouldn't bother me, but on stage, bouncing and rubbing the juncture of one's thighs against the corner of a piano bench seemed rather odd...I bet it feels good, however...and I really didn't mind watching...I like to watch.
Thank you, Chauncy Gardener.;-D
I guess I'll go check to see if I can walk on water...
the little girls still throw roses.
After all, Mikee...no sense takin' too many "chaunces." Besides, if I know you, you'll be carrying huge piles of vinyl with you, which might weigh you down a bit.;-D
Dirk
It makes Jarrett unlistenable for me. I always admired his playing, even as far back as the 70's I was wearing out vinyl copies of The Koln Concert and Facing You as I realized that as gorgeous as his solo playing could be, I couldn't ignore the yammering in the background. Totally distracting from the playing, IMO. I began to listen mostly to Jarrett in a group setting as on Treasure Island , to try to avoid the most blatant moaning, but it's mostly unavoidable. As teriffic a player as he is, these days I find I really can't listen to him. Too bad. I don't care what he says, or how any pianist justifies it, that moaning is NOT part of the music. It doesn't exhibit any special skill, and isn't even musical. A lot of pianists are guilty of it to some degree. It can be annoying when OP does it too, but he's not quite as up front with it as KJ. Jacky Terrasson is one of the younger players who's another really load moaner, but since I don't really care for his playing, it doesn't bother me too much.
Because of the yammering, moaning, sing-a-along etc.I hadn't really concentrated on it all that much because the music is great. As mentioned here, there are quite a bit of piano musicians who do this.
Speaking specifically about KJ, the Blue Note box is the best piano jazz trio recording I have. All know on this board that trio recordings is my focus and I have plenty and always want more. Evans, OP, Hawes, Garland, etc. No one touches this set!!! I hold Ray Brown trio recordings amongst the finest out there also but still feel the KJ set beats any of those.
Perhaps ECM does so well with their recordings that it is more evident than trio recordings available on other labels. Lots of recordings I own on the ECM label keep up with my SACD recordings, if not surpass some!
.
...for grunting and being noisy. His later recordings had less.I personally don't like it, so like you, I would choose a different recording by a different pianist.
Many musicians make noises. Rudolf Serkin was also notorious, but the recording engineers managed to muffle his noises somehow. The noises are distracting and can be so much as to detract from the listening experience.Gould was such an interesting figure...people love him or hate him. I don't care for his pianism at all, much preferring Gilels, Pletnev, Uchida, Hewitt.
There are better recordings of the Well-Tempered Clavier than Gould's; in fact, I think his is among the worst!
As alternatives, check out the piano version by Angela Hewitt (can't recall the label at the moment) or the harpsicord recording by Kenneth Gilbert on Archiv (1984).
I actually like it. A lot of people say that all the extraneous noise is just another symptom of Gould's showmanship; but I think it's proof that he responded honestly to music. There's great footage of Gould hunched over the piano, moaning and weeping with complete inhibition. It's really moving.
IMD,I also have grown to like Gould's strange humming and singing over the years. Gould gave up public performance for recording only and his humming seems to add the human presence back- the ghost in the machine. There is something intriguing too in the contrast of his very studied, architectural playing and the freedom of the person humming along.
Cheers,
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