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In Reply to: Vänskä and Beethoven posted by il Barbiere on February 19, 2007 at 03:41:16:
Vanska is fast, dynamic, heavily accented with large contrasts in volume (the pianos verge on the inaudible) but very few modifications of tempo, other than at the usual places (ends of sections, movements). This is bound to be the complete antithesis to any fan of Furtwangler, for example.I miss the flexibility and expression of, say, Bruno Walter in this material. If that could be combined with Vanska's drive, then you would have the ideal Beethoven interpretation, IMO.
It all adds up to a superficially exciting but rather faceless way of playing Bethoven. New insights? Perhaps the best that can be said about the three SACDs released so far is that they present a major American orchestra in the best possible light. In terms of precision, balance and beauty of sound they trump my previous (American) favorites of Cleveland, New York and Philadelphia playing Beethoven.
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and I cannot possibly see how he's unbalanced for the first violins and not clear on 2nd voices etc. What an amazing performance and the sound is quite good also. I must still try a Vanska. Which one of his, the 5th, 3rd or 9th would you say to begin with?
really, I think I'd better get a disc or two. Pretty bold claim, as the ones you cited were pretty much benchmarks at least Cleveland for precision (if you mean the old orchestra).
but it's true. Listen, especially, to the inner voices (second violins and violas) in the Vanska recordings and how incredibly precise they are. If there is a passage with repeated sixteenth notes, you can hear every note! Szell never bothered with this kind of precision.Just as important is the balance--the old Szell/Cleveland recordings were overbalanced in the first violins IMO--the strings in general tended to cover the winds, except when Szell (or the recording engineer) highlighted a solo. But with the Vanska/Minnesota recordings, you can hear everything perfectly--without the need for artificial "highlighting". So in that respect, it's a kind of large-scale "chamber music", with no one section covering up the others, and all sections deferring to the others.
I wish I could be more enthusiastic about the interpretations, which I still think are rather "faceless".
Is your observation due to the recorded sound and ability of the new recording to bring this out? Since I don't have any Vanska recordings, the only way I will find out is to buy one and listen.Szell was known for making his large forces sound chamber like, which you say he wasn't good at, and now you say Vanska is good at it. Intriguing.
Do you think Szell's Beethoven is cold? You did not say so, but I am curious which Beethoven set is your cup of tea.
just that Vanska and the Minnesota have taken "precise" to the extreme. He has obviously drilled his ensemble to a fare-thee-well (or perhaps they are just very motivated), and the results show.Yes, I would have to say that the quality of the recording has something to do with it. But more importantly, the sound of the strings is very listenable. Comparing my old Szell LPs with the Vanska SACDs, I actually find the sound of the violins in the latter to be smoother and sweeter, and my vinyl rig is pretty decent.
As for which complete Beethoven is my "cup of tea", I would have to say that to this day, there still isn't a single set that scores a home run in every symphony. I prefer to pick and choose, and my choices may depend on that particular day whether I feel like listening to a historical recording or modern stereo, American or European orchestra, modern or period instruments. It's all over the map, as I'm sure is the case with many other inmates here.
you might recommend one. I have the same technique. Just reviewed a cd of E. Kleiber on Beethoven 3/5 Amsterdam last week. But fell in love with the Schmidt-Isserstedt VPO version on cd, passed on a perfect copy (at LA/OC Audio Society record exchange and sale), since the guy wanted $10. He had 1/2/3/5/7/8/9, I think. I already had 5/8.
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