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Hi-Fi News June.Two labels issuing the same title on competing formats ?
Bassist Brown´s 1984 outing is an ideal opportunity for comparison.
The verdict? Inescapably vivid differences: the SACD is richer, more open and forward; the DVD-A more laid back, both in sound quality and sounstage placement.
In turn, one might suit some systems better than the other: throught MartinLogans, the SACD won; thruogh LS3/ As, the DVD-A...
Follow Ups:
Patrick,it's interesting that the Ray Brown comparison leaves that question open. Better still, you suggest that one format may sound better on a specific system, but the other might sound better on another.
I'm actually interested in that final sentence of your post. I have noticed that all the discussions on the HRH and on the Audiobahn concentrate on the players, on the receivers / amps and of course on the software, but never on the final link, the speakers.
It strikes me that in discussing one or the other format, people assume that speakers are entirely neutral and "transparent" in the system. But if you are "looking" for a certain type of sound in DVD-A, there is no doubt that you will chose your speakers accordingly, and probably just the same, but on different criteria, for SACD. So maybe DVD-A sounds best on a system that has been optimized for DVD-A, and SACD sounds best on a SACD system.
Anyway, it would be interesting in the future to have a list of speaker models that sound "good" with DVD-A (and ideally starting way below Meridian price tags :)
Best
Actually I do not think that it really ( in the eyes or better said to the ear of one person, ken kessler, on this particuliar SACDand DVD-A) it is open as he clearly chose the SACD one ( if you know the HiFi jargon as it is meant) over the DVD-A.( he was not long ago in absolute term an DVD-A fan)
Well, I would point out a single component but I would rather the synergie of a given system, but as a paradox, of course each piece of it is most important.
Ideally, " neutral speakers " or neutral of an ensemble, should be obtain, but that is far away from the reality...I personally prefer to make an compromise with something that sound acceptable with each kind of music or software.
That is a personnal choice.
Bonne nuit, Eric.
Patrick
Patrick,I have to congratulate you on a fantastic job of sweeping under the rug a fundamental difference.
The Groove Note disc utilized equalization, ie you aren't hearing exactly what's on the tapes. The Hi-Res disc didn't add equalization, ie you are hearing what's on the tapes.
As soon as Ying inserted equalization, any meaningful comparison went out the window.
I prefer the DVD-A version over the SACD version, but they're both very good.
Regards,
John Kotches
Cher John,Thank you for the compliment...But it was not ( never) meant the way you see it. And I do not understand why you come to such an conclusion.
But I am ready to try to elaborate what you may have seen as an intepretation.
I just said that Ken Kessler prefered obviously the SACD version, and as we may now know this version was " impure "...but it has intresecally nothing to do with his critic, even if one may argue that he did a bad job, not knowing the fact that it was equalised afterward....
I do hope that I may my case clear.
Sorry Patrick, the only "case" that's been made is that equalized SACD to be preferential for Ken vs. DVD-Audio.That's it.
Anything else is misguided at best.
nt
I don't have a picture of me on the Internet and I don't own a digital camera but if you can visualize a white male, 38 years old, 6'2", 205lb with short, slicked back grey hair and a mustache, that would be me! And you?
54, White male ? slim & tender & grey hair turning white,and no mustache, caramba !
http://www.ultraaudio.com/music.shtml
Quote:
"Counting the CD layer of the Hybrid SACD, there are four versions. It is not a perfect A/B comparison situation, however. Groove Note tells me that equalization has been applied to their SACD, whereas Hi-Res, working from the same master, used none."
No offence, but I wonder if you have your information REALLY first hand ?
Patrick
nt
.
Every cable, playback/recording machine and DAC acts as a tone control to some degree or another in various parts of the audible spectrum. Nothing is ruler flat! The job of the mastering engineer is to make the transfer sound as good as it can given the available equipment.
nt
In other words, it's going to boil down to personal preference.
Some of us can spend hours listening to reference quality software on relatively high end systems and not come to a definitive conclusion. Others can listen to Celine Dion on an HT system and hear the "warm, liquid, analog-like" characteristic that distinguishes SACD. And then again, apparently some of us never let the facts get in the way of a goos sound bite.
.
Because she sings like an squirrel....
nt
It's the catchy headlines that sell the papers, isn't it?
NT
and birdwatcher who was killed when he ran into a goose last weekend. Must have made a deeper impression than I realized. Now, I have an overwhelming desire to listen to Honkytonk Women on SACD. Honk, honk!
NT
I had a Toshiba SD9200 DVD-A in my "A" home theater/music system, and a Philips SACD1000 in my "B" system. Putting an Anthem PVA-5 amplifier in the "A" system and took the opportunity to swap the Philips into the big one and the Toshiba in the B system.It was Celine Dion who made me do it. Just sounded so great on the little system that I figured I'd try it out on the big one. I like both formats, but I am starting to think the SACD may sound better for music.
The Anthem goes in this afternoon, I'm looking forward to listening to the SACD player hooked up with the Outlaw ICBM, stereo subs, etc. I'll report back on how the SACD sounds in the big rig.
Yes me too I tend to tend for SACD, BUT I still not have gathered enough evidence, they are so much imponderable ( Who did what with what..)
The only thing that I will never agree with is the copycode.
So does a lot of people who do like DVD-A over SACD.....
Maybe this is all too academic, and we are losing the REAL fun with music....
Maybe we are perverted....
Patrick,With the emergence of universal players this boring discussion should go away and we should focus on how good the software and systems can get. Since I use the sound of a piano to calibrate the resolution of my system, I'm continually searching for the best solo piano disc in each format. Right now, my choice for DVD-A and overall is the 5.1 track on the AIX Mozart & Schuman disc. This is closely followed by my SACD reference, the Lazic/Ravel Retrospection on Channel Classics. However, I can only play this in stereo right now and I understand that it is just plain scary in MC. While I can hear differences, I'm a long way from any judgement as to which format is best.
On the other hand, there is a great deal of software out there in both formats which doesn't hold a candle to RR's HDCDs.
I have the Sony Classical M Perahia Chopin Etudes and the AIX sampler with the Revolutionary etude (op.10,no.12).
IMHO the Sony stereo SACD blows away the AIX m/c DVD-A, at least in terms of sound quality/fidelity.
m/c doesn't really seem to enhance the experience for this recording.
I think I have the AIX Sampler, but I never play it. The Perahia Chopin Etudes isn't particularly good sonically.
I played these directly from my Dennon 2900 to my Sunfire Grand amp and through a set of 5 magnepans.It's funny but the only difference I expected to hear was some additional hall ambience with the MC. Not the case. Somehow more of the piano's harmonics seem to come forth with the multichannel. There's a sweeter sound and you can hear more of the piano's lace and timbre. Hope you can set it up on MC soon (with matched speakers). You heard right, relatively speaking it sounds downright scary.
And I agree, one very good piano recording can tell you multitudes about a player, preamp, or speaker.
I also agree, let's keep the SACD/DVD-A war going. As long as we have the competition we'll continue to see good recordings and plenty of them. Too bad DTS came a little before it's time. I'd love to seem them in the thick of this battle. Between SACD, DVD-A, and DTS recordings I'm able to hear a lot of good multichannel performances.
And yes, God willing the players of the future will be multifunction players. This Dennon is really opening up my choices, not to mention the fact that it has greatly simplified my system.
even moving from 192/24 stereo to 96/24 5.1 (try the Guarneri String Quartet) of lower harmonics coming through more clearly on the MC leading to a warmer sound overall. I'm expecting to hear something similar from MC SACD when Denon gets around to selling me a 3900 in the fall (I can't live without HDCD).
.
Apparently still undecided whether they'll support one format or the other, even though they master in Hi Rez PCM. HDCD probably buys them 44.1/20 but they are the best argument going for high resolution masters even for low resolution formats.
TIA
but my favorites are the Rite of Spring, Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances and the absolutely stunning Scheherazade and Respighi discs.
The problem with so-called universal player is that they mostly are mostly favoring one system in the sound quality, the Linn may be the first one not to...
DVD-A in my ear still sound with an digital edge ( so does SACD too but on a lower level )
But some of the DAD ( Chesky ) did sound sooo good...That I really think that the most important part is without doubt the care from the guys at the command...
MC compare to the highest quality avaible on plain stereo, is still difficult to mach...you gain something and...you lose something.
Of course we will have to wait for more channel to get it more right....
But using MC can be real fun and...scary ! As you said.
At the end of the month I will be at the Frankfurt high End, and I will see and ear a lot of new component, I wonder what will be seen from SACD and DVD-A !
So long, Jim.
Hopefully both SACD and DVD-A will be very well represented.
A small resumé.
I'm stuck with 2 different players each accommodating noncompatible formats. I love DVD Audio, it's been an eye opening experience the only disappointing aspect of which is the limited musical offerings.I've been offended by the unpleasant zealotry of some fans of SACD which has made discussions about the relative merits of the 2 formats difficult.
I certainly haven't come to any final decision about which format I prefer, they're both excellent. At this point, I think the SACD format may be the slightly better format for reproducing music.
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