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Posted by Eric LeRouge (A) on May 03, 2003 at 07:27:03

There's some useful information in the Amazon websites, which tell you the "Amazon sales rank" (ASR) for each item. Over a period of 5 days, I checked the sales ranks of the top pop/rock DVD-As on Amazon.de, Amazon.co.uk, and Amazon.com. All of this is public information, provided to customers as they navigate on the websites. These figures fluctuate up and down as new items move up ("movers and shakers") and, I believe, as time goes by. If you verify the figures, you will notice that they may vary from day to day.

Caveat

As a caveat, this is by no means a scientific sample, nor is it an indication of total sales. The amazon methodology for these figures is not known, and we have no indication of the scale of these rankings (eg the sales position 5,000 could be only a few units away from 50,000). In other words, I don't believe the differences are meaningful for one title only, and for a small interval, but for a series of titles

To make things clear: the difference between the ASR 5,000 and ASR 6,000 for one title (or between 2 titles) may be negligible, as we have no indication of the number of units between these two ASRs. But the overall sample distribution in terms of ranking, and the comparative distribution of equivalent CDs, is probably meaningful.

I believe, in any event, that these figures indicate the success of several "mainstream" titles over one of the most visible Internet stores in Europe.

A total of 65 titles, primarily from Warner, were included, because they were available and were in the highest selling ranks. The sample was fairly similar on all 3 websites. There were only a few titles available on one site only (Bryan Ferry / Frantic, available only on Amazon.de). Only the UK website was missing several key references (somebody should give these guys a call).

Finally, I didn't do this as a scientific study, but as a "quick and dirty" and I may have ommitted some key titles. I did check for alternate editions when the ASR was extremely low or surprising, especially for the CD counterpart edition. The Bjork Vespertine DVD-A had two editions (Canada and UK), with very similar sales ranking (in the low 40,000).


Snapshot Analysis

When analysing these figures, the sales rank (Amazon.de-Verkaufsrang ) for the sample of 65 mainstream "pop/rock" DVD-A titles was consistently better than the rank on the UK and US sites.

• The DVD-A selection was the largest on Amazon.de, and only one mainstream title was not found (REM Reveal). The DVD-A edition was also more apparent on the website (the reference to the DVD-A edition was apparent on the page of the CD edition)

  
  

• BTW... DVD-A listing is a mess on the other websites. On the UK and the US website, you can only access some DVD-A titles by their ASIN number, they don't show up in the DVD-A search... nor on the Artist listing! (e.g. try to find the Philip Glass DVD-A on Amazon.com... it shows if you enter the ASIN: B00005M979 under the name "score" :)

• When compared with the UK website, the sales rank on Amazon.de was consistently better. The sales rank was better on the Amazon UK site for only 17 DVD-A titles, out of 65. The sales rank on Amazon.de was also consistently better than on Amazon.com

• Interestingly, Emylou Harris / Producer's Cut, which doesn't have a CD counterpart edition, had similar ASR on Amazon.de and Amazon.co.uk (4,252 and 4,218 respectively). The sales rank for that title was 33,767 on the US website. Perhaps this is an indication of the "scale" of the respective rankings?

• For the total sample, the ASR for all DVD-A titles on Amazon.de was not great overall (19,149), but it was much better than on the Amazon UK (28,559) and much better than on the Amazon.com site (99,638).

• The ASR for the top 25 titles, however, was much better (4,559) and consistently higher than on Amazon.co.uk (19,409) and on Amazon.com (51,817) for the same titles. This figure of 4,599 is actually very good. Just as a point of comparison, the sales rank of the CD edition of the Doors LA Woman is 5,443 and the sales rank of the CD edition of the Corrs In Blue is 22,930 on the Amazon.de website. (see table)

• When looking into individual titles, Queen NATO is the top seller, with a very high sales rank (554), followed by Eagles Hotel California (771). A total of 8 DVD-A titles is below 3,000, and all top 20 titles were below 10,000.

• More interesting is the average position of the DVD-A edition compared with the CD edition: on the Amazon.de website, the average selling rank was better than the respective CD edition of those titles. While there are many exceptions to this, this proved true on the whole sample (average DVD-A rank 19,149 compared to 21,093 for the CD editions). One has to be careful with the CD sales rank, because there may have been several editions of those titles, and the figure probably refers to the latest edition only, which is considered a separate reference.

• On the sample of 20 top titles, however, the difference is telling. For several titles, the DVD-A editions outsell their respective counterpart CD editions. When excluding the two titles which had no CD counterpart edition (Jazz at the Movies and Harris Producer's Cut), the average position of the top 18 DVD-A titles was 3,669, compared with 15,617 for the respective CD edition. When excluding the Steely Dan / 2 Against Nature from the sample (the CD edition ASR is very low), the ASR of the top DVD-A titles (3,500) is still better than the CD counterpart (9 845).
  

(Sorry for the sloppy table, if someone could tell me how to make those, it would be useful)

Top Sales Rank of DVD-A titles on Amazon.de
(collected 30 april to May 3)

Rank---Title--------------------------- DVD-A ------------ CD
1. --- Queen / NIght at the Opera ----- 554 -------------- 2 583
2. --- Eagles / Hotel California --------- 771 --------------- 410
3. --- REM Automatic ---------------- 1 315 ------------- 1 048
4. --- Faith Hill: / Cry ----------------- 2 386 ------------ 659
5. --- Jazz at the Movies -------------- 2 403 -------------(na)
6. --- Linkin Park / Reanimation -------- 2 594 ------------- 477
7. --- Fleetwood Mac / Rumours ------- 2 666 ------------ 255
8. --- The Nightfly --------------------- 2 849 ------------- 6 468
9. --- Foreigner / 4 ---------------------3 167 ------------ 57 433
10. --- Philip Glass / Koyaanisqatsi ---- 3 689 ------------- 24 738
11. --- Young Neil / Harvest ----------- 3 750 ------------- 139
12. --- Elvis / #1 Greatest Hits ---------- 4 011 ------------ 290
13. --- Metallica / Metallica ------------- 4 224 ----------- 780
14. --- Harris / Producer's Cut ----------- 4 252 ------------ (na)
15. --- Mana / MTV Unplugged --------- 4 653 ------------ 514
16. --- Clapton / Riding w/ King --------- 5 241 ------------ 6 364
17. --- Carly Simon / No Secret ---------- 5 250 ---------- 30 205
18. --- Band / The Last Waltz ------------ 5 651 ---------- 12 069
19. --- Steely Dan / 2 Against Nature ---- 6 549 ----------- 113 739
20. --- Corrs / In Blue ------------------- 6 722 -----------22 930

Source: Amazon.de Website

Comment

Some of this analysis is simply common sense (DVD-A titles sell better than the CD edition of fairly old catalog titles), but it shows that top DVD-A titles are close to the level of key mainstream pop/rock figures on Amazon.de. While this is not entirely a surprise, it may be useful to remember that these products reach significant volumes when they are marketed correctly. It may also be useful to note that DVD-A may outsell the CD edition of some titles.

The differences in the sales rank between Amazon.de and Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk is very important, and there may be several explanations:

- there is a better selection of DVD-As on Amazon.de
- the DVD-A search is more easily accessible from the CD edition
- prices may be lower (I didn't check that :)
- the German Amazon site serves as a platform for other European countries, including Switzerland, Austria, and all of Central Europe, and is labelled in Euros, as opposed to the UK, which is in £.
- the German market is more receptive to DVD-A.

Overall, I find it slightly disappointing that the more recent quality titles such as Bjork / Vespertine or Buena Vista Social Club are not (yet) in the top 20. The Emilou Harris Producer's Cut release is probably a good indication of the potential for a DVD-A only release.

And, finally, I think that if I was in charge of a DVD-A record label, I know exactly where I would try to get my products referenced in Europe :)

Best

Eric






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• Appendix: Top 25 DVD-As also outsell counterpart CDs on Amazon.com - Eric LeRouge 01:14:15 05/05/03 (4)
  In Reply to: Top DVD-As outselling CD counterparts on Amazon.de posted by Eric LeRouge on May 03, 2003 at 07:27:03:

  Still in a "low-tech" presentation (sorry Metralla), here's the top 25 DVD-Audio on Amazon.com ranked by ASR, as of 4 May 2003.

  I think this deserves an update, because my post on Amazon.de was incomplete. In my previous post above, I indicated that the average ASRs were much lower on Amazon.com than on Amazon.de. This is true, but only for pop/rock releases. When I investigated a little further, the major difference on the US website is that there are 7 classical releases within the top 25 DVD-Audio titles.

  So if you inlude classical releases, the Top 25 DVD-Audio titles also outsell their CD counterpart on Amazon.com

  Even if you exclude classical releases that do not have a CD counterpart, the average ASR of the top DVD-Audio titles is still better than the average ASR of the CD counterparts (although by a smaller margin)

  Note: I re-checked the ASRs on Amazon.de, and if you include classical titles in the sample, only one title makes it to the Top 25 (Beethoven Barenboïm Symph 9, at the 23rd position), all the other classical titles floating in the lower ranks. So the sales of DVD-Audio on the German website reflect a more pop/rock audience, while sales on the US website reflect a more balanced audience, with both pop/rock and classical.

    
   Rank    Artist / Title                         DVD-A          CD 
   ================================================================= 
   1.      Yes / Fragile                            976        6,159 
   2.      ELP / Brain Salad Surgery              1,099        7,546 
   3.      Immersion DVD-Audio                    1,292         (na) 
   4.      Fleetwood Mac / Say You Will           1,950            6 
   5.      Fleetwood Mac / Rumours                2,016          610 
   6.      Metallica / Metallica                  3,547          475 
   7.      Beethoven / Barenboim Simph 9          4,177         (na) 
   8.      Blue Man Group / Audio                 4,328          637 
   9.      Deep Purple / Machine Head             5,544        3,644 
   10.     Fourplay / Fourplay                    5,592       23,298 
   11.     Doors / LA Woman                       6,044        8,346 
   12.     Faith Hill: / Cry                      6,140          338 
   13.     Dvorak / Harnoncourt  / Simph 9        6,369       50,147 
   14.     Mahler / Zubin Mehta / Symph 2         6,943       94,787 
   15.     Eagles / Hotel California              7,454        1,196 
   16.     Bach / Koopman / Organ Spectacular     7,746         (na) 
   17.     REM / Automatic                        8,146          912 
   18.     The Nightfly                           8,786        2,937 
   19.     Beethoven / Barenboim Simph 1+2        8,860         (na) 
   20.     Cooder Ry / Buena Vista Social Club    9,673          177 
   21.     Queen / NIght at the Opera             9,675        2,395 
   22.     Beethoven / Barenboim Simph 7+8       10,246         (na) 
   23.     Foreigner / Foreigner                 10,484       17,718 
   24.     Tchaikowski / 1812 Ouverture          11,055         (na) 
   25.     Parsons / I Robot                     11,105        4,104 
   =================================================================== 
           Average (Top 25)                       6,370       11,865 
    
    
           Average (top 50)                      14,043       8,114 
           Average (79 refs)                     82,624      11,180  

    
     Close followers   
                   
   Rank    Artist / Title                         DVD-A          CD 
   ================================================================= 
   26.     Coltrane / Blue Train                 11,917        3,759 
   27.     Steely Dan / 2 Against Nature         12,745        6,979 
   28.     Elvis / #1 Greatest Hits              13,977          203 
   29.     Beethoven / Barenboim Simph 3         14,131         (na) 
   30.     Merchant N / Tigerlily                14,713        1,897 
    

  
  Source: Amazon.com website

  
  I hope this is useful to someone

  Best

  Eric

  
  
  
  

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  • No worries Eric - Metralla 06:56:37 05/05/03 (1)
    In Reply to: Appendix: Top 25 DVD-As also outsell counterpart CDs on Amazon.com posted by Eric LeRouge on May 05, 2003 at 01:14:15:

    Happy to see that using the PRE tag enables you to make far more readable layouts. What you have done is quite fine and you can now concentrate on getting the data - which is the way it should be. I'm all froth and bubble.
    
    Regards,
    Metralla
    
    

    ---

    • Give me some time to practice - Eric LeRouge 08:19:11 05/05/03 (0)
      In Reply to: No worries Eric posted by Metralla on May 05, 2003 at 06:56:37:

      and the Billboard will look cheap in comparison.

      : )

      Thanks again

      Eric
      
      
      

      ---
  • But what does it mean? - RdH 06:38:23 05/05/03 (1)
    In Reply to: Appendix: Top 25 DVD-As also outsell counterpart CDs on Amazon.com posted by Eric LeRouge on May 05, 2003 at 01:14:15:

    Hey Eric, Excellent work. At least it shows that people are interested in purchasing the high-rez material. I have to wonder if it is simply representative of the fact that finding high-rez is difficult unless you go on-line. Picking up CDs at the local shop is very easy.

    The new Fleetwood Mac is likely one of the best recordings to follow as it is a new release in both CD and DVD-A with a loyal fan base. It would be interesting it see if the proportions that are sold in high-rez are larger then those of Rumours. On-line this seems to be true.

    Rod.
    
    

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    • Re: But what does it mean? - Eric LeRouge 07:59:08 05/05/03 (0)
      In Reply to: But what does it mean? posted by Rdh on May 05, 2003 at 06:38:23:

      Hi Rod,

      
      I don't think these figures reflect what happens in the brick & mortar channels at this point.

      To be sure, this is not a representative sample, but merely an indication of the fact that DVD-A editions can outsell CD editions.. even if it's in a very specialized distribution channel. I was also interested to see that the US market is interested in classical titles.. and that the German market in pop/rock (I would have thought the opposite).

      I'll be honest, the fact that Yes / Fragile appears to be #1 on Amazon.com, and Queen NATO #1 on Amazon.de is a bit disappointing to me, I would have hoped that a more recent title leads in sales. But Warner's strategy to re-issue old classics seems to work : )

      I guess my main conclusion would be: if you have a small or medium sized record company with a DVD-A product line, it's probably easier to concentrate your marketing effort on trying to get your products positionned on Amazon (and in particular Amazon.de), than through a brick & mortar retail network (with a lot less inventory). Easier said than done, I guess..

      Of course, all the audiophile websites are also a natural target.

      Perhaps it would be interesting in the future to do this 'snapshot ' analysis on a regular basis (say, every two or three months), and see what happens.

      Best

      Eric

      
      
      

      ---
• Like this? - Metralla 22:02:28 05/03/03 (10)
  In Reply to: Top DVD-As outselling CD counterparts on Amazon.de posted by Eric LeRouge on May 03, 2003 at 07:27:03:

  
  

  	Artist	Title	Sales Rank DVD-A	Sales Rank CD
  1.	Queen	Night at the Opera	554	2,583
  2.	Eagles	Hotel California	771	410
  3.	REM	Automatic	1,315	1,048
  4.	Faith Hill	Cry	2,386	659
  5.		Jazz at the Movies	2,403	(na)
  6.	Linkin Park	Reanimation	2,594	477
  7.	Fleetwood Mac	Rumours	2,666	255
  8.	Donald Fagen	The Nightfly	2,849	6,468
  9.	Foreigner	4	3,167	57,433
  10.	Philip Glass	Koyaanisqatsi	3,689	24,738
  11.	Young Neil	Harvest	3,750	139
  12.	Elvis	#1 Greatest Hits	4,011	290
  13.	Metallica	Metallica	4,224	780
  14.	Harris	Producer's Cut	4,252	(na)
  15.	Mana	MTV Unplugged	4,653	514
  16.	Clapton	Riding with the King	5,241	6,364
  17.	Carly Simon	No Secret	5,250	30,205
  18.	Band	The Last Waltz	5,651	12,069
  19.	Steely Dan	2 Against Nature	6,549	113,739
  20.	Corrs	In Blue	6,722	22,930

  If you are still interested, tell me and I'll follow up with instructions.
  
  Regards,
  Metralla
  
  

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  • Yes, thanks a lot - Eric LeRouge 07:29:46 05/04/03 (9)
    In Reply to: Like this? posted by Metralla on May 03, 2003 at 22:02:28:

    how can I can do that?
    
    Best

    Eric

    
    
    

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    • http://www.w3.org/ - Frank 23:59:28 05/04/03 (0)
      In Reply to: Yes, thanks a lot posted by Eric LeRouge on May 04, 2003 at 07:29:46:

      All there is to now about html tags:

      Have fun.

      Frank
      

      • http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/

      
      

      ---
    • HTML tables - an introduction - Metralla 09:01:04 05/04/03 (7)
      In Reply to: Yes, thanks a lot posted by Eric LeRouge on May 04, 2003 at 07:29:46:

      First, let me remind you how HTML tags work. These work in pairs. The first turns on the interpretation and the second turns it off. If you forget to use the second, you will affect all that follows, so you have to remember. An HTML tag is a word (or words) in angle brackets. If it's a word that is understood by the browser, then the action is performed; if not, then it does not appear.

      For example, I can go to into bold text with the < STRONG> tag and come back out with it's matching termination tag < /STRONG> . And if I do this correctly , my text is bold. But if I made a spelling error and spelt the HTML tag as < STRING> , then it would not work. So if I write < STRING> correctly < /STRING> , you just see correctly .

      I tend to put HTML tags in upper case, although the engine is not case sensitive. And for XML and XHTML, lower case is the standard. Upper case makes them a little easier to see in this tutorial.

      HTML tags sometimes consist of a number of words. The first word is the tag itself, and what follows are called attributes. These typically consist of a keyword, the equals sign, and something in double quotes. For example < TABLE BORDER="1"> is an HTML tag to start a table, and it says that the borders of the table have a width of one "border unit". If we used zero, the borders would be invisible.

      1. A Table that's not a table

      Because most browsers render text in a proportional font, attempts to line up columns of text or do ASCII art will not work unless you use a fixed width font. For example, I can tell the browser not to format my text using the < PRE> tag, draw my diagram, and then tell the browser to carry on formatting with the < /PRE> . I have to make sure I use spaces and not tabs to align the columns, but it does work fine. Like so:

      < PRE>
      

        
       Rank    Title                        DVD-A    CD 
       --------------------------------------------------- 
       1.      Queen / Night at the Opera   554      2,583 
       2.      Eagles Hotel California      771        410  
        

      
      < /PRE>

      2. The building blocks

      Here are the HTML tags you need to know in order to write a simple table:
      

      TABLE - this tag starts and finishes the whole table
      

      TR - table row. Your table has a number of rows.
      

      TD - table cell. Each row has a number of cells
      

      TH - like a cell but the text will be bold, so used for table headings.

    The important thing to note is you must count correctly, and each row must have the same number of cells. Or you will see an error in the display.

    3. Developing and testing

    The easiest way to build your table is to work outside of AA with (assuming Windows) Notepad and Internet Explorer. Just create a file on your hard drive called (say) test.html and write into it, save it, then you can open it up with IE. If you make some changes, save and simply refresh the open browser.

    When you have the table working correctly, remove all the carriage returns and select all, copy, and paste into your AA message window.

    It's important to use the preview button in AA to check that everything is working correctly, and that you have not omitted a closing tag.

    4. A Simple Table

    So let's write a simple table with a heading, two columns, and three rows. I like to format these while I'm developing them with a bit of structure, but I remove all this and put it all on one line before posting to AA. If you don't do this, AA will insert a whole bunch of BR tags which will push your table down.

    < TABLE>
    < TR>
       < TH> Artist < /TH> < TH> Title < /TH>
    < /TR>
    < TR>
       < TD> Queen < /TD> < TD> Night at the Opera < /TD>
    < /TR>
       < TD> Eagles < /TD> < TD> Hotel California < /TD>
    < /TR>
    < /TABLE>

    Artist	Title
    Queen	Night at the Opera
    Eagles	Hotel California

    5. Table with Borders

    Well, that did not look very good but if we turn on the borders with the attribute BORDER="1" it will look better. So now I write:

    < TABLE BORDER="1">
    < TR>
       < TH> Artist < /TH> < TH> Title < /TH>
    < /TR>
    < TR>
       < TD> Queen < /TD> < TD> Night at the Opera < /TD>
    < /TR>
       < TD> Eagles < /TD> < TD> Hotel California < /TD>
    < /TR>
    < /TABLE>

    and we get

    Artist	Title
    Queen	Night at the Opera
    Eagles	Hotel California

    What do we notice? Well, the table sizes itself automatically to the widths of the columns. The text in the heading cells is center aligned while in the table cells it's left aligned.

    Just one more thing, when using borders and you have a cell with nothing in it, you should put a "non breaking space" between the TD tags, or the borders will not be drawn around that cell. A non-breaking space is written like this:

    & nbsp;

    So when we come to the "Jazz at the Movies" disc, with no artist, we need to make a table cell for the artist with a non-breaking space inside it. Table now becomes:
    
    < TABLE BORDER="1">
    < TR>
       < TH> Artist < /TH> < TH> Title < /TH>
    < /TR>
    < TR>
       < TD> Queen < /TD> < TD> Night at the Opera < /TD>
    < /TR>
       < TD> Eagles < /TD> < TD> Hotel California < /TD>
    < /TR>
    < /TR>
       < TD> & nbsp; < /TD> < TD> Jazz at the Movies < /TD>
    < /TR>
    < /TABLE>

    and we see

    Artist	Title
    Queen	Night at the Opera
    Eagles	Hotel California
    	Jazz at the Movies

    Obviously, this is just a start to the wonderful world of HTML tables. They are a lot of fun and I could rave on for hours. The best thing is, they are simple to practice with as you have the decoding engine you need - it's your browser.
    
    
    Regards,
    Metralla
    
    

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    • Excellent Intro - Thanks!!! (nt) - gw 13:55:10 05/04/03 (0)
      In Reply to: HTML tables - an introduction posted by Metralla on May 04, 2003 at 09:01:04:

      .
      
      

      ---
    • Re: HTML tables - an introduction - NotMe 09:51:25 05/04/03 (1)
      In Reply to: HTML tables - an introduction posted by Metralla on May 04, 2003 at 09:01:04:

      Good basic introduction to HTML tables. Just one nit-pick:

      "The important thing to note is you must count correctly, and each row must have the same number of cells. Or you will see an error in the display."

      Not necessarily, let's not forget the colspan and rowspan parameters within TD instructions (although I appreciate you were deliberately keeping things simple).
      
      

      ---

      • You are perfectly correct - Metralla 10:55:24 05/04/03 (0)
        In Reply to: Re: HTML tables - an introduction posted by NotMe on May 04, 2003 at 09:51:25:

        Indeed - COLSPAN is most effective. You also guessed my motives accurately.
        
        Regards,
        Metralla
        
        

        ---
    • Re: HTML tables - an introduction - Eric LeRouge 09:27:28 05/04/03 (0)
      In Reply to: HTML tables - an introduction posted by Metralla on May 04, 2003 at 09:01:04:

      Thanks

      This is better than anything I found when I searched the Web for an introduction on HTML tables.

      Best

      Eric
      
      

      ---
    • A few mistakes crept in - Metralla 09:15:31 05/04/03 (0)
      In Reply to: HTML tables - an introduction posted by Metralla on May 04, 2003 at 09:01:04:

      It's a bit hard for me to write the tags so you can see them, and I messed up.

      I omitted the TR tag to start the row with "The Eagles" in it (twice), and I used a /TR tag to start the row with "Jazz at the Movies" in it.

      Apologies - but you get the idea. You have to try it for yourself.
      
      Regards,
      Metralla
      
      

      ---
    • Sorry about that. - Metralla 09:08:19 05/04/03 (1)
      In Reply to: HTML tables - an introduction posted by Metralla on May 04, 2003 at 09:01:04:

      That last table should have looked like this:

      Artist	Title
      Queen	Night at the Opera
      Eagles	Hotel California
      	Jazz at the Movies

      When using the preview message button, your non-breaking spaces will be converted to spaces and displayed in the message window, and then when you submit, they are gone. It's an issue.
      
      
      Regards,
      Metralla
      
      

      ---

      • This is great stuff - Eric LeRouge 09:24:55 05/04/03 (0)
        In Reply to: Sorry about that. posted by Metralla on May 04, 2003 at 09:08:19:

        Thank a lot Metralla

        I'll practice these codes and try to include "professional" tables in my posts in the future, although the < PRE> option looks as an easy option for starters.

        I'll do my best

        (Geez, this place is like work now :)

        Best

        Eric
        
        

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