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In Reply to: Try these . . . posted by Martin on May 01, 2003 at 03:00:19:
I also have Barenboim conducting Chicago on Mahler 5.Contrast these to my multichannel SACDs including, for instance, the MTT San Francisco Symphony recordings of Mahler 1, 3, and 6 and my Delos Schnittke concerto for piano and strings / Shostakovich Chamber Symphony (Orbelian w/ the Moscow Chamber Orchestra, there's no contest. To me, the DVD-A recordings lean toward sounding somewhat CD-like where the SACDs sound more vinyl-like. To my ears with SACD each instrument sounds more like they're in the room with me; they sound more lifelike (you hear more woodiness in the clarinet and hear more of the wood texture in the stringed instruments). With the SACDs there's much more clarity and separation, more ability to close your eyes and point to the instruments in the orchestra (remember, I'm comparing these using the exact same system and room accoustics).
Now I didn't write this to argue DVD-A against SACD, all I want to do is discover that DVD-As can sound as good as my SACDs so I can open up my choices in music selection.
Thanks again for your recommendations. Now, of these, which would you rate as best recordings (not necessarily best performance). I'd like to do a comparison of best against best and then go from there.
Follow Ups:
You are coming with conclusions suggesting SACD gets you closer to the music than DVD-A. I am leaning towards the same conclusion based on the very small sampling I've done to date.I tried one of the Tacets and Barenboims Beethoven 6th and both were "decent"; definitely better than most CDs I've heard. I don't think both were as musically involving as some of the "pure" DSD classical pieces I've played with. I've also played with a few Classic Records DADs and the Eagles "Hotel California".
You might try comparing Ray Brown's "Soular Energy" available on both SACD and DVD-A. Both are allegedly derived from the same analog tape and both same very similar (to my ears) when played back on Sony 777ES and Meridian 598. Than again, the differences in formats might have been "effectively canceled" with the differences in source hardware..
I'll refrain from making definitive conclusions until I've heard quite a bit more. I'll be interested to hear what you think about the recommendations made by others (e.g. Beethovens 4,5, & 9).
Beethoven's 4,5, & 9 are good (Teldec) are good (and are part of a complete "set" (1-9) recorded specifically for multi-channel on DVD-A. Note that even on the CD pressing of this Teldec set, numerous reviewers have praised the overall performance of this Barenboim / Warner project as being probably the best "cycle" by any conductor/orchestra to date.By the way, I don’t think an equivalent whole set exists for SACD, so you can’t really do a comparison based on nos 4,5, & 9. In contrast I understand SACD folks presently have to rely on old remasters (e.g. 1960-70s Karajan? etc.) if they want to hear Beethoven’s symphonies.
Also note that the Barenboim set was actually recorded several years ago on first-generation multi-channel equipment. So while the sound quality is good, it isn’t quite up to the standard of Teldec’s more recent St Matthaus Passion release. Furthermore, the Teldec Beethoven set was recorded in a large studio, whereas I prefer a more natural setting.
In contrast, St Matthaus was recorded in a large historic building in Vienna, Austria, with beautiful natural acoustics. For this reason, I say that if you haven’t listened to it on the Meridian setup in 5.1, I suggest you do so, before making any judgement on sound quality, realism and "musicality".
By the way, have you not listened to any of the AIX chamber-music titles I listed, or the Naxos Four Seasons? And was the Tacet title you mentioned one of the recent 96kHz productions? If not, I suggest you listen to these too. MDG’s Missa Solemnis is also worth checking out. All these sound better in my opinion, than the aforementioned Barenboim cycle (that is, if one can actually make a representative comparison). Also, the definitive release of AIX’s Chopin "Four Ballades" is also sonically very impressive and the Steinway piano does sound very "real".
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45 minutes each way though and ran out of time (silly time consuming issues like take the kid to Six Flags, rake leaves, mow yard, bring in Meadowlark speakers for an audition, etc ...)Have to return that EAD DVDMaster real soon so I may miss out. I have no doubt I will be able to latch onto another decent DVD-A player whenever I'm in the mood. Getting kinda burned out trying to A/B different speakers, amplifiers, DVD players...etc. Heck, still haven't given MC SACD a decent workout.
needed to correct to " ..both sound very similar (to my ears)..."
> > Now, of these, which would you rate as best recordings (not necessarily best performance). < <That's a difficult question to answer! As recordings go, the AIX titles I mentioned, are all first crystal clear. For your "evaluation" purposes, I wholeheartedly recommend getting the sampler from www.aixrecords.com. This has a wide selection from the AIX catalog. As regards chamber music, I happen to like Vivaldi and Handel (these composers featured heavily in the choral and orchestral concerts I performed in at school), so I play that disc ["Marcello, Handel & Vivaldi - Oboe Concerto, Organ Concert and 2 Sinfonias"] a lot. The natural texture of the oboe in particular is superb. Tracks from this title, however, are not featured on the sampler.
In addition, if you want to hear a piano as lifelike as you’ll probably ever hear on any recording, then get the Chopin: "The Four Ballades".
A mention also has to be made of the lush sounding St Matthaus Passion (Harnoncourt/Teldec). This is easily the best Teldec recording so far (and perhaps the best DVD-A by any label), and runs for an amazing 2hr 45mins at 96/24 in 5.1. The performances are top notch too, and it features the Vienna Boys’ Choir. On top of that, they manage to cram in an interesting documentary video (as well as the Dolby track of the whole thing). A must. (Strangely, it's not available yet in the US, but you can order it from Amazon.co.uk.)
I agree with "ct" that the Tacet titles are excellent — but make sure you get the newer ones which are 96kHz & 24 bit. In particular, I think you’d enjoy the two titles I’ve listed. (Some older titles from Tacet are only at 48kHz resolution.)
Also, there’s no excuse not to get the Naxos "Four Seasons" especially at its modest asking price of about $12. Recorded in 96/24 & 5.0ch, this does sound exceptionally clear indeed, and sounds better than many titles costing much more.
1st para -> > . . . are all first crystal clear . . . < <
I was in the middle of writing "first rate", but I changed it to "crystal clear", without deleting the word "first".
(cannot edit it, as I didn’t log-in).
I asked because I just recently rated 4&5 and 9 as reference surround recordings at my website. Some time before that I rated the others as just a little better than CD quality, but the 4&5 and 9 were so good that I thought I might missed something.For my classical recommendations it’s easiest to just look at the reference section mentioned above.
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