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In Reply to: Yes, SACDs are exploding, cracking, and shattering everywhere. I was waiting for this cheap hit... posted by michi on April 28, 2003 at 17:38:43:
n/t
Follow Ups:
The only reason you think it was inappropriate or 'hysterical' of me to outline which pressings weren't cracking was because it gave you a chance to attack me because I don't rub against DVD-A displays in stores and dare touch the 'tainted format'.If it was DVD-A that had a problem like this, (and it could happen), you'd be all roses.
"RETURN defective items" ... What, for another defective item?
No, no, I understand. If it's DVD-A, it's golden, if it's SACD, it's fecal.
My posting specifying which discs were and were not defective was perfectly reasonable.
You classifying *ALL* sacd's as "crackers" was propaganda.
But, this is a war. So I guess all is fair. So it's fair for you to smear me because I *DARED* post something fucking informative about the format that your Jihad rages against, it's fair for me to say that I hope that your Warners' "Crash! Bang! Boom!" DVD-A develops a fracture while it's spinning, and shatters in your face and blinds you while you're listening to sound-effects whirl about your head amidst a sea of "hard hittin' bass".
or something for my side of the war? 'Cause I *really* suck at that kinda stuff. SACD good. DVD-A good. 8-track bad. (Hey, there isn't an 8-track forum here somewhere is there?) Oh ****, I just offended somebody in the vintage forum ;)
No offense, really. I just wonder why I am on the receiving end of such harsh criticism of yours... I would call this "hysterical" if I may... Your postings are okay with me, otherwise. And it was good to read in another post that SACD bigmouth Groovenoter himself has some bad pressings out as well...To calm you down:
I have experienced problems with a bad Warner DVD-A pressing once, and the Sonopress hybrid DVD-Audio disc I received for testing did not play the way it should in the Denon A-1, Panasonic RP91/RA71, Harman Kardon DVD 1, my Toshiba DVD-ROM,...
In case you want to try any non-crackative European pressing, be it SACD or DVD-Audio or CD, I am ready to swap these with anyone for any American disc I cannot find here...
and it makes my head spin when others do it.Overview. I do not have ANY problem with DVD-A or PCM. It's been made clear that *I* don't like watermarking because I've WORKED with Verance material and don't like it.
And I CERTAINLY don't like the crack problem with Crest hybrids.
I have posted here trying to defend against the "MLP is flawed" crap, which I don't believe.
But, then, I also post against the "DSD noise is audible" crap which I also don't believe in Hirez.
I address specifics. "DVD-A has this problem", but what I get is, "YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE SACD PEOPLE!" ... I didn't draw this line in the sand. I was pushed onto one side of it.
Don't laugh. I think that Hybrid DVD-A/SACDs could be made. I've looked at the UDF directory structure. It isn't impossible.
Mr Stefan Schreiber has outlined his ideas in European audiophile magazines and says he simply wants to end the format war to proliferate hi-rez music. Professionals have rejected his proposals of two-sided bonded discs, and some have even ridiculed his arguments. One of his faults was to suggest that anyone who preferred one format over the other should simply label the "wrong" format side of the disc...A double DSD/MLP mix or re-mix for every new project... I think some DVD-A's would be delayed for light-years then...
DVD-A players should ignore anything extraneous (SACD entries) in the directory tree, but I don't know if that's true with SACD players. (though, it should... Again, they're both UDF.)Just something like this:
Root:\2C_AUDIO
Root:\MC_AUDIO
Root:\AUDIO_TS
Root:\VIDEO_TS2C_AUDIO\2C_AREA1.TOC
2C_AUDIO\2C_AREA2.TOC
2C_AUDIO\2C_TAREA.2CH
2C_AUDIO\TRACK001.2CH
2C_AUDIO\TRACK002.2CH
2C_AUDIO\TRACK003.2CH
2C_AUDIO\TRACK004.2CH
MC_AUDIO\MC_AREA1.TOC
MC_AUDIO\MC_AREA2.TOC
MC_AUDIO\MC_TAREA.MCH
MC_AUDIO\TRACK001.MCH
MC_AUDIO\TRACK002.MCH
MC_AUDIO\TRACK003.MCH
MC_AUDIO\TRACK004.MCH
AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_0.BUP
AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_0.IFO
AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_1.AOB
AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_2.AOB
AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_3.AOB
AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_4.AOB
AUDIO_TS\AUDIO_PP.IFO
AUDIO_TS\AUDIO_SV.IFO
AUDIO_TS\AUDIO_SV.BUP
AUDIO_TS\AUDIO_SV.VOB
AUDIO_TS\AUDIO_TS.BUP
AUDIO_TS\AUDIO_TS.IFO
AUDIO_TS\AUDIO_TS.VOB
AUDIO_TS\DVDAUDIO.BUP
AUDIO_TS\DVDAUDIO.MKB
VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.BUP
VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.BUP
VIDEO_TS\VIDEO_TS.IFO...Does anyone think that'd work?
...except for the fact that I might have just mocked up a 15GB disc... But... theoretically?
It seems that both DVD-Audio and SACD players expect incompatible lead-ins on layer 0 - so even if some players (Pioneer, Marantz, Onkyo, recent Sony's) can handle this hybrid, all the others will fail. My Panasonic machine DVD-RA71 (RP-91 U.S.) gets stuck in the CD layer of the Sonopress DVD-A/CD hybrid, the Denon A-1 cannot decide what to do and plays nothing... A DVD-A/SACD hybrid will yield the same results, I'm afraid...
There is room in the DVD Audio spec for dsd tracks.However the sacd security with the pit width processing is a substantial hurdle.
We all have to buy a new player for single sided 'Super DVD Audio Disc' replay.
is that a separate mechanism? Universal players use the same transport.... That's a point though: how would an existing universal player sort out the disc, even if it did work.
Is that the PSP results in an AM modulated signal on top of the normal disc readout signal. Both can be easily detected and filtered.
The PSP signal would have a lower carrier frequency than the normal signal derived from the disc.
Some of the security data is modulated into the PSP signal.PSP can also be used to create a visible image on the disc.
Because the PSP signal has a lower frequency it also means that the servo focussing mechanism must cope with the lower frequency PSP signal (wich affects the reflected light level).
The focussing servo loop mechanism must be less thight and must act slower to cope with the wider bandwith of the signal coming from the light detectors.
This means that the focussing (an also tracking) is less optimized for the datastream that is holding the actual information.
I suspect that disc and player tolerances must be kept thight to ensure stable operation. Wear and tear and long term in drift electrical circuits parameters can affect the playback reliability.
The many reported problems with TOC read difficulties and failures to recognize sacd layers could be related to the problem.
Welcome to the other side of the fence Michi.On the Hi-Rez Highway, it's the other way around.
Life's tough sometimes, isn't it?
You throw around cheap niceties like "regards" when you don't mean them.What's the other way around, huh? What the HELL is the 'OTHER WAY AROUND' here? What is so "reversed" here where my posting of information is patently FALSE and INAPPROPRIATE?
Yeah, that's right. I'm in your territory.
And PLEASE throw the 'REGARDS' out the window. If we were at a convention, and some DVD-A Jihad zealot shot me in the head, you'd go out for drinks afterwards.
This is a war in which the goal is to cause as much harm to the other side as possible, is it not?
Look Michi, you really need to get that chip off of your shoulder and lighten up.On the Hi-Rez Highway, SACD/DSD is praised to high heaven as the greatest thing ever while DVD-A is often described in terms you used earlier about SACD.
If you step back and think objectively about my message you'd immediately grasp the point.
As far as the "Regards" goes, it's called a closing/signature.
Anyone who has read anything I've posted should know that.And I have to say again, I was quite vocal in my incredulity about the supposed "MLP Flaw".
If I was a band-wagoneer, I'd jump on the "MLP Flaw" just because it was Anti DVD-A.
I wouldn't have spent my damn money on a damned 47Ai and 45A if it was dogma for me.
need to be repeated endlessly. Almost everyday, someone makes an inquiry that has been dealt with ad nauseum a week, a month or a year ago. There are also many new members. Just relax. I find DVD-A posters much more reasonable. Many of us hear listen to SACD and DVD-A. That is in contrast to Jazz IM who has no use for DVD-A as he sees only one "survivor" in the format "wars". Unforutunately, he is more representative of many on the hi-rez highway ie. Rich, Teresa(I think she is actually on the vintage forum now, as per Rich) even the moderator of this forum Chris, who clearly chooses sides, even as his SACD player is one of the many being repaired. If we want to giggle over the foibles of SACD, we should be able to, heaven knows many SACD supporters lord it over DVD-A.
First of all you should know that I think Rich is slime. And I think most people with some meat between their ears realize he's a moron, and I'm glad he's gone.Teresa, well, er, I haven't said this yet but she's a little bit nuts. So much so, that I'm somewhat afraid to say so. Her rantings about how anything in DSD is (was) orgasmically an epiphany, and that PCM causes children to murder their parents has given me the raised eyebrow many a time...
It's funny how she did a 180 to vinyl on that, though. She'll probably spend the rest of her days spinning about saying the word 'Vinyl!' over and over again... I don't know about her. That's why they call this the Asylum.
after I posted I realized I was a little late to the thread. For some reason the posts all of a sudden appeared even after I had been surfing and posting this morning. Anyway, glad to see things have worked out and settled down. Do I dare say I hope you and Patrick are happy!:') Sorry, couldn't resist.
heh
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