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Question on Pioneer DVD-A players - 45A and 47Ai

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I am considering "upgrading" from the Technics DVD-A10 to a newer DVD-Audio player.
I went to a local home-theater/stereo store where they had the two Pioneer players, 45A and 47Ai, as well as the Integra 9.3.
I got to play around with all three players, but couldn't make an informed decision on sound quality since I was so focused on useability. That is what my question is based on.
It appears that I couldn't change "GROUPS" on any DVD-Audio disc without digging down into the GUI/onscreen menus. My Technics easily changes Groups and Audio (stereo vs. MCH) via the remote - so that for 99% of the many DVD-Audio discs I own I do not need to use the TV monitor.
Can you change groups on the Pioneer machines without having to navigate the on-screen menu system?
Also, another feature that the Technics does is tell you exactly what you are playing just by looking at the players front panel and display. A specific light goes on when it plays 2-ch material and another for MCH. In addition a push of the Audio button will scroll the type of audio you are listening to, i.e., 96 24 6ch, etc. It appears the Pioneer's front panel display gives you no clue as to what kind of disc you are playing unless you have your TV on to show the on-screen display.
Is there any way for the Pioneer machines to display exactly what kind of disc you are playing on the front panel display and at what resolution and bit depth?
Thanks in advance for you answers.

Follow Ups:

Re: Question on Pioneer DVD-A players - 45A and 47Ai - kastle 05:33:15 04/07/03 (1)
I have a Pioneer 733A = 47A
Illustrative example:
Place DVD-A disc onto tray. Press Play (rather than Close)
Starts playing Group 1, Track 1
Press Search Mode on remote.
Group no. (1) starts flashing on front display
-Press 3 (for group 3) and Enter to skip to Group 3, Track 1
OR
-Press Search Mode again on remote.
Track no. (1) starts flashing on front display
- Press 5 (for track 5) and Enter to skip to Group 1, Track 5
Pressing Display button on remote 3 times show bitrate
Front display always shows no. of channels that are active.
It is not possible to reveal the PCM type (kHz sampling/bit length) on the front display
Above applies to Pioneer 733A. Not sure if it'll work on USA model or 633A = 45A
Hope this answers your question.
- Re: Question on Pioneer DVD-A players - 45A and 47Ai - MT 13:39:35 04/07/03 (0)
  "Place DVD-A disc onto tray. Press Play (rather than Close)
  Starts playing Group 1, Track 1
  Press Search Mode on remote.
  Group no. (1) starts flashing on front display
  -Press 3 (for group 3) and Enter to skip to Group 3, Track 1"
  Unfortunately - the new 47Ai and 45A don't seem to work this same way. I tried for over 30 minutes with both of these machines, as well as the Integra 9.3, to easily switch groups and none of the machines seem to work as you explain. Granted I could have missed something - but it wasn't so cut and dried.
  I consider myself somewhat intuitive when it comes to using electronics and remotes - and compared to the Technics DVD-A10, using the Pioneer for DVD-A was not as easy without a TV monitor, IMO.
Not sure you would be upgrading by doing that - Eric LeRouge 09:58:58 04/06/03 (2)
Hi MT,
I won't go into the groups / display issues (already covered by Dave Kingsland), but I'm just not sure that by changing your A10 for a Pioneer 45A or 47Ai, you would be upgrading.
I picked up a Technics A10 about a month ago and I can say that the sound on DVD-A and on Redbook is probably better than the Pioneer universal players (and definitely better than the European 656, because when I picked it up the salesman compared both).

I also have a Marantz DV8300 (based on Pioneer, same navigation and software), and while it is more detailed, it's not as warm as the Technics. On some jazz, pop and rock music, the sound of the Technics is very good, in my opinion.
Several inmates have modded their A10, and fmak has described briefly the mods (here or on the HRH). Perhaps that's an other option, he says the sound is much better now. I'm thinking about that also (including a way to get rid of the ticking).
Also, the A10 can read all DVD-A discs, sometimes it has a hard time starting the disc, but after a few tries, it works. The Pioneer models will not accept discs with more than 34 WAV or AIFF files.
So you may want to keep the A10 as a backup unit, just in case...
Best
Eric
PS: if you're looking for a "one box" solution, you may want to look into the Yamaha model, which has been discussed several times on the HRH. The Marantz DV8300 is very good, but expensive.
- Thanks - I guess I will stick with the DVD-A10, but... - MT 10:29:23 04/06/03 (1)
  I have had one problem with the Technics reading and playing one DVD-A disc.
  I went through 3 copies of the newest Boz Scaggs album, the one where the bonus package had a CD and DVD-A. The DVD-A would just not play. The only disc out of near 80+ discs that I own that was problematic.
  Thanks for your comments.
  - I wouldn't give up on upgrading just yet. - 9fold 14:41:50 04/06/03 (0)
    Mike, you know my views on the 'A10 (especially when compared to the Denon '3800). The 'A10 is a great component, for sure. However, I think you could do better. I agree with the view that a Pioneer Elite player may not represent an upgrade, but consider other models.
Groups & front panel display - Dave Kingsland 08:36:43 04/06/03 (1)
I've got a 45A. These answers should also apply to the 47Ai since it has basically the same display & menu system.
The Pioneer can switch groups without going through the on screen menus, but not while it's playing. You have to fully stop playback and then select the group you want using the appropriate number key on the remote. It has to be fully stopped because if you use the number keys while an on screen menu is displayed, it selects the corresponding menu entry instead of the group. For the discs authored with groups, the surround mix is usually group 1 and the stereo mix is usually group 2. About 2/3 of the discs I have are authored this way. The other 1/3 are authored to the new spec with everything in one group. On these discs, you can switch between stereo and multichannel on the fly using the AUDIO button on the remote.
The front panel display will only tell you what group & track you are playing and the elapsed or remaining time for the track or group. It will indicate whether you have a CD, SACD, DTS CD, or DVD disc loaded. But the 5.1 indicator will show up for all DVD-A and DVD-V material, regardless of what DVD-A mix you happen to be playing. More detailed information such as which channels are active, the sample size & rate, and the disk transfer rate are only available from the on screen display.
As far as sound quality goes, I can't really help you too much since I haven't heard the Technics player and my 45A is used in a mid-fi home theater system. But my impression is that its performance on DVD-A material is pretty decent. On the other hand, its SACD performance is a little disappointing. I briefly hooked up an SACD-1000 in the same system to compare and it easily smoked the Pioneer 45A.
Dave
- Thanks Dave... - MT 10:34:27 04/06/03 (0)
  I think I am going to stick soley with the Technics until something that much better comes along. I wouldn't be buying the Pioneer, or any universal player, for the SACD section anyway - seeing how I already have what many consider to be the pinnacle in MCH SACD playback - The Sony XA777ES.
  Thanks again.
I have the DV-S755Ai - jeromelang 07:01:50 04/06/03 (1)
It is the Asian version of 47Ai. No useful display, no Audio button, no group changes without turning on the TV. Defaults to 5.1 mix everytime, when all I want is the stereo. I think better to hang on to the A10.
- Thanks - I was hoping to "upgrade" though for possible sound quality inprovements.. - MT 07:27:20 04/06/03 (0)
  but I wouldn't know if any player will best the Technics DVD-A10 sonically until I try one in my system.
  The place I went where I saw the Pioneer and Integra players allows for a full 7 day no questions asked return policy. The salesman understood that I wanted to audition the player in my home to even determine if the "upgrade" would be worth the money.
  Obviously, if the DVD-A10 performs as a sonic equivlent to any new player - I have no reason to upgrade - as I don't really need a "universal" player since I also own a few SACD players (one being the Sony XA777ES).
  But thank you for your comments.
Re: Question on Pioneer DVD-A players - 45A and 47Ai - kastle 06:05:53 04/06/03 (3)
you can download the 47 manual from the Pioneer website
- Thanks - but this doesn't help. Anyone - comments on DVD-A players that allow GROUP changes easily? - MT 07:03:44 04/06/03 (2)
  Yes - I already looked at the manual both in the store and again on line. It still isn't clear.
  First of all the 47A has a different menu structure and remote than the 47Ai (I saw both in the store).
  Secondly, the manual isn't very clear on how to change "GROUPS" - and from what it does say it would appear that you have to use the on-screen display to be able to effect what you are trying to accomplish.
  I want a player, like the Technics DVD-A10, where you can switch GROUPS (as well as Audio) on the fly by merely pushing a button on the remote and entering the information without using a TV monitor. The Technics allows you to easily change groups without turning on your TV since the front panel display of the unit has all the needed information to do so. It appears that the Pioneer and Integra machines (where the Integra is basically based on the Pioneer 47A anyway) don't allow you to do this.
  - MT, group changing works the same on the 47Ai. - Michi 01:21:15 04/09/03 (0)
    Yes it has a different menu structure, but you can still address groups from STOP by entering the number at that point, and then enter.
  - Re: Thanks - but this doesn't help. Anyone - comments on DVD-A players that allow GROUP changes eas - ratskrad 11:34:56 04/06/03 (0)
    The Pioneer DV-656A has on the fly group change by using the audio button on the remote. It is not high end but it does have Burr-Brown dacs and has decent sounding playback in dvd-a.

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