 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
172.190.78.191
In Reply to: Hmmm... posted by Charles Hansen on December 21, 2005 at 09:34:25:
Charles Christine and my reading comprehension are fine, it is you that is having trouble grasping the concepts of HDCD. So I will try to help you.You said: If an "HDCD" disc is recorded without the mastering engineer activating the "peak extend" and "low level extension" features, THEN THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE TO USING AN HDCD DECODER.
Sorry Charles your statement is very incorrect, see highlighted text below from HDCD.com FAQs:
Q: Why should I listen to HDCD-encoded CDs on a player with HDCD decoding?
A: HDCD recordings will always sound better than conventional CDs when played on any CD player. You hear fuller, richer sound on all types of players, from portables to high-end systems, which is why so many top artists and engineers use HDCD technology. To bring out the full bandwidth and superb fidelity of HDCD recordings, a player with HDCD decoding should be used . HDCD recordings have a dynamic range and resolution and, best of all, the HDCD decoder chip used in consumer products also contains the HDCD high-precision digital filter that improves the sound quality of all types of digital audio recordings. This means that any A/V receiver, CD player, DVD player, and MiniDisc player equipped with HDCD will produce significantly better sound from your entire collection of CDs, DVDs, and MDs.
from Spectral Audio.com
HDCD recordings are made from analog to digital conversions having more bits and faster sampling to provide a large amount of dynamic and resolution information. Digital signal processors then identify corrective actions or fixes to prevent losses and distortions when this information is reduced to the CD format. Some of these fixes are directly coded to the linear PCM data of the compact disc thereby improving performance from all players. Others are converted to a hidden code and sent through a buried information channel to the HDCD process chip in the SDR-2000. Upon processing, the normally lost micro level resolution signals are restored. This improved resolution requires conversion accuracy and jitter performance much better than traditional engineering and design practice. A very carefully and thoroughly executed process system is needed to fully utilize the HDCD filter technology.
Also from Reference Recordings.com:
However, the finest levels of resolution, imaging and spatial information will be revealed when these CDs are reproduced on players with HDCD decoding ...
You also said "Contrary to Christine's assertion. There are NOT multiple filters that switch on-the-fly in an HDCD decoder. This means that one of Christine's claims for the benefits of HDCD decoding does not actually exist.
For this I was unable to find a link, for some reason Microsoft has nixed most of the technical articles on the internet. I guess Bill Gates wants to make sure no one can copy the process? However I can assure you that HDCD does use multiple filters in the encoding process that are hidden in the LSB along with "extra" musical and ambient information. To retrieve it, you need an HDCD decoder to mirror the opposite of what the HDCD encoder did.
If you don't trust yourself to hear the extra 6dB of dynamic range "Peak Extend" affords, Christine has the equipment to measure it. BTW all of Reference Recordings HDCDs use both Peak Extend and low level Extend. But even without those two features you will miss the extra resolution of HDCD by not using an HDCD decoder prior to playback, all HDCDs, especially those from Reference Recordings, Linn Records, First Impression Music and Opus 3 need an HDCD decoder to get the full benefit of the extra resolution the process offers.
HDCD discs SHOULD use HDCD decoding every time to hear the recording as the engineer intended.
Hope this helps,
Teresa
Follow Ups:
The first half of your post comprises the repetition of meaningless marketing claims. I will not bother to rebut these.You claim you were unable to find a link to any evidence that supported Christine's claims. I will try to help you here. I already posted that www.archive.org keeps copies of old web pages. Apparently that wasn't enough information for you, so I will be more explicit.
The archived pages that contain technical information concerning the HDCD process can be found at:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.hdcd.com/partners/proaudio/articles.html
A specific archived web page from October 2004 that contains the now-deleted documents can be found at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20041012195600/http://www.hdcd.com/partners/proaudio/articles.html
The most relevant document that explains the HDCD decoding process can be found at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020124175704/www.hdcd.com/partners/proaudio/DecoderFAQ.pdf
Additional technical information can be found in the AES pre-print at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020124220637/www.hdcd.com/partners/proaudio/AES_Paper.pdf
Please read these documents (or any others you care to), and you will find that Christine's claim is untrue. Please remember that Pacific Microsonics was pretty good with misleading marketing claims, so you will need to read carefully to make sure you are not inferring something that isn't actually said. I think that is actually the source of Christine's confusion on this point.
If one adds a qualifier to your closing statement to instead read, "HDCD discs [utilizing "peak extend" and/or "low level extension"] SHOULD use HDCD decoding every time to hear the recording as the engineer intended", then this is accurate. However, HDCD discs recorded without these features enabled receive NO benefit by being played back via an HDCD decoder. All that it will do differently from any other playback circuit is light up the front panel indicator light. As far as I know, short of interviewing the mastering engineer, there is no way for one to know which HDCD discs will benefit from HDCD decoding.
I wonder why Microsoft deleted all the web pages that explain HDCD technology from www.hdcd.com and why they are no longer available on other "active" sites?The first set of articles are ones original appearing when Microsonics owned the technology. I am glad someone archived all of these links. I am sorry I missed the mention of these sites in one of the many of your previous posts in this very long thread. But I will read them all in time. Thanks!
So Pacific Microsonics has made claims that are untrue? It is often hard to seperate advertising from science.
Anyway I am quite pleased with HDCD recordings that originate from HDCD masters especially the Reference Recordings. Though the resolution is lower than DVD-Audio or SACD many are quite enjoyable and spectacular when decoded.
Teresa
Teresa wrote, "So Pacific Microsonics has made claims that are untrue?"I wouldn't say "untrue" as I don't know of any flat-out lies they made, but I would say definitely misleading. The most egregious example of this was when they released their sampler that allegedly compared non-HDCD against HDCD. What they negelected to tell you was that the non-HDCD track was made using the (atrocious sounding) Sony 1630 A/D converter and the HDCD track was made with the (excellent sounding) Keith Johnson A/D converter. This was an unfair, depceptive "comparison".
They could have chosen to make a valid comparison by simply turning the HDCD features on and off when using the Keith Johnson A/D converter. But they instead chose to sell by misleading the public.
Teresa wrote, "It is often hard to seperate advertising from science."
Agreed, which is what I've been attempting to do in this thread.
Teresa wrote, "Anyway I am quite pleased with HDCD recordings that originate from HDCD masters."
Also agreed. When first introduced, the HDCD A/D converter was head and shoulders above anything else on the market. It is still one of the best converters out there. (It was discontinued a couple of years ago, but is still used by many mastering houses.) The only thing I was trying to clarify was *why* HDCD recordings sound good in general.
Specifically, the primary sonic advantage of HDCD discs is due to the high performance of Keith Johnsons's circuitry. The compansion scheme optionally used on the encode side (and that is the *sole* basis of HDCD decoding) only provides an arguable sonic improvement, and one that is clearly smaller than KJ's circuitry. Finally, there is an unknown percentage of "HDCD" discs that are encoded without any compansion features enabled, and that there is no benefit *whatsoever* to playing back these discs on an HDCD-equipped playback machine.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]