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In Reply to: Re: Listening to two DVD-Audios: Bach/St. Matthew Passion/Harnoncourt (Teldec) and Mozart/Figaro (Naxos) posted by Martin419 on October 8, 2005 at 11:52:38:
*** I did ask you where the horsepower was — Go on, open it up and use your electronics background to identify the DSP chip(s) and their capabilities. Or ask Panny if you can’t figure out what’s inside. ***So, in other words, you want *me* to disprove a baseless statement from you. That's rich. Even if I listed every chip in the player, what difference does it make? You will just call me a liar (see below).
*** But DPLII is NOT hirez. Everything becomes a LOT easier in 48/16! :) ***
C'mon Martin, how much processing power does it take to manage a memory buffer? And how do you know DPL II is not hirez?
*** That's not racist. It’s a truism. ***
Now that is truly offensive.
*** OK Chistine, show me a spec which shows DPLII with a freq-response output specification exceeding 22kHz? ***
I really don't know what point you are trying to make here. Are you trying to say that DPL II *cannot* be implemented in anything other than 48/16? The Fosgate DPL II decoder is implemented completely in analog. Therefore, no frequency limitation at all.
*** I’ll say it again: REL recommends BRICK walls for best sound. ***
Again, you can't have it both ways. Either your walls reflect, or they don't. If they don't, then there is no point in placing your subwoofer in a corner, and therefore you wouldn't be getting good bass. Since you are claiming you are getting good bass, therefore your walls must be reflecting. Otherwise, you are not getting good bass. So, which is it?
*** Christine, because its our hobby. i.e. you "enjoy" it. Anyway, you once said that MichaelDVD didn’t pay you to do the reviews, since you do it on an amateur basis. (Just as I don’t get paid to write reviews in HFR.) So what’s the problem? ***
As I've said, I only review on request, and only on review samples. You noticed, I have not posted reviews on any of the players that I own. If I don't even post reviews of players I own, why should I write reviews of other people's players?
*** And not that I doubt you for a second, but how do we know you haven’t just made-up some key aspect of this 'friend / DVD-A11' story to suit your argument? After all, you were not wholesome with the truth when you said that the manual, and I quote: " . . . states that the speaker distance settings apply to all listening modes including DVD-Audio"
When it doesn’t "state" that at all. ***So you now want to call me liar, just because I said something which you don't want to hear. Typical. As for the manual, I've already explained it to you - again, it's not a message you want to hear.
Okay, how about this: I lied about the manual. I lied about the friend. I don't have any friends. Your A11 is the best DVD player ever built - there is no better. Happy now?
Follow Ups:
> > *** That's not racist. It’s a truism. *** Now that is truly offensive. < <I’m not racist. I’ve lived in the Far East for over 15 years. I made many friends there. The real bigots in this "PC" world are those who castigate and name-call others who dare speak out about what is true.
> > Again, you can't have it both ways. Either your walls reflect, or they don't. < <Ever done the ripple-tank experiment in your high-school physics class?
Experiment: Put the motorised wave source in a corner of the tank, and what you get a smooth linear progression of waves radiating out diagonally (i.e. over the longest uninterrupted distance -- i.e. the 'hypotenuse'), and also along the walls. Not straight into them as would happen if the source was in the middle of the tank.
N.B. Tellingly, it is precisely this word "linear" which REL uses about the sub's response when placed in the corner. And I could even go to the extreme of having my walls coated in acoustically dead polystyrene foam, and the corner sub placement principle would be just as valid.
> > As for the manual, I've already explained it to you - again, it's not a message you want to hear. < <What you implied was written in the manual was wrong. Plain and simple. Your phrase about it did not exist in any shape or form.
*** I’m not racist. I’ve lived in the Far East for over 15 years. I made many friends there. ***Sure. And I'll bet your Japanese friends are supporting your statements 100%.
*** Ever done the ripple-tank experiment in your high-school physics class? ***
Ever measured your room, and the distance it requires to reproduce a 20 Hz sound signal (taking the speed of sound into account)? Once you've done so, do you think a 20 Hz signal would even fit into your room without reflection?
*** What you implied was written in the manual was wrong. Plain and simple. ***
Or perhaps you just don't want to accept what it's trying to tell you. Plain and simple.
> > Sure. And I'll bet your Japanese friends are supporting your statements 100%. < <But they won’t be trying to decipher the Jap-to-Eng translation. ;-)
> > do you think a 20 Hz signal would even fit into your room without reflection? < <Doesn’t need to. In fact, no in-room reflection is best with the way REL ‘loads’ their subs, and they are designed to work ‘down low’ in smaller listening spaces.
But here’s the killer: Check this headphone freq response:
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/pdfs/hd580.pdf
Now C’mon, you really don’t need to hold that 40+metres away from your ears to hear the bass!! :)
*** Check this headphone freq response:
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/pdfs/hd580.pdf
Now C’mon, you really don’t need to hold that 40+metres away from your ears to hear the bass!! :) ***there's a difference between specs and reality.
I have the HD600, which is superior to the HD580, and i can assure you the bass response is not flat down to 12. In fact, most owners on head-fi.org report you only get good bass down to about 40 Hz or so.
Rather than arguing, suggest you measure and check the actual bass response in your room for yourself. Don't be surprised if it's not as good as you think. And while you're there, you can also check impulse response.
Hey, have you seen the film "Lost In Translation", about this poor western chap all by himself in Japan? Many a telling point made in that film! Go and see it if you haven't already.But talking of Japanese consumer goods, a UK contact of mine tells me one of the biggest problems his people face, is that their company's technical engineering wizards in Tokyo don't speak a single word of English. So, trying to get answers to technical issues (esp those which are not covered in the supplied manual), is very difficult indeed.
So they end up not bothering waiting for an answer from their colleagues in Tokyo, and instead hook-up the machine in their own UK lab to see how it behaves in particular circumstances. And if that doesn't provide the right answers, then it's just a case of: "we've tried our best, but we can't do anything more for you sir".
*** Hey, have you seen the film "Lost In Translation", about this poor western chap all by himself in Japan? ***Yeah, i quite like the movie. It was amusing. But a colleague of mine who has recently returned from fifteen years in Japan says it's not like that in reality. Maybe he was just lucky. Then again, maybe I just made him up, just like the other friend!
*** a UK contact of mine tells me one of the biggest problems his people face, is that their company's technical engineering wizards in Tokyo don't speak a single word of English. ***
That hasn't been my experience with Denon, Pioneer, Sony or Panasonic. Their command of English is not perfect, but it's completely understandable, and they can read English just fine. At one stage I was tracking a distortion problem on my Denon amp, and the local distributor put me in contact with an engineer in Japan and we were exchanging emails. He had no problems understanding my emails and was very helpful in trying to replicate the problem. In the end, it turned out to be because i've connected more than one device to the line outputs - on the Denon, they all share a common bus, so any issues with one component will affect all components.
Similarly with the other companies, I've had no issues dealing with Japan, on voice or over email. A lot of design work now happens in the US, UK and Australia for many Japanese companies. I've read service bulletins from Sony and Panasonic, and they are written in perfect English because the Japanese employ English-speaking people to write this stuff (note - these are not necessarily Westerners - plenty of Japanese speak good English)
Same thing with the Panasonic manual. It seems to me it's written in grammatical English, and provides minimal, accurate information. That's why your statement is racist - there is absolutely no truth in it, you just like saying it because it makes you feel better, and it gives you an excuse for not accepting what the manual is saying in plain and simple English.
*** So they end up not bothering waiting for an answer from their colleagues in Tokyo ***
I could make a racist comment here about British arrogance and apathy, but I won't :-)
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