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In Reply to: Just compared Laurence Juber's Cannery Row in both 192kHz 24 Bit and 96kHz 24 Bit posted by Teresa on November 07, 2004 at 03:48:37:
"Let's see, if I turn my Cary SLP70 to 2 o'clock, where the distortion is just unbearable, I can get the accoustic guitar to play at realistic accousic guitar levels. Except, when a well made, normal DVD Audio comes on next, like 2VN, my speakers will blow a fuse!".
Follow Ups:
DUI:Mark records without any compression or limiting. He sets his levels so that he will not clip the loudest sound they produce in testing and then runs with it. 2VN has a fair amount of compression on the tracks, so when you run into a recording with real dynamics you end up with exactly what you describe.
On the other hand, if you want Mark to start compromising his audio quality, then just don't buy his discs.
vs. David Sanborn, with the preamp left alone. Since my amp has a peak hold feature I can see what power it puts on for each disc.
Without touching the volume knob-My amp is rated at 275 wpc channel at .004%David Sanborn 25-125 watts
Guitar Noir 3-12 watts.
Having just spoken with Mark on Friday about some upcoming recordings (etc) and some other topics, I have an idea of what probably happened.The percussionist was asked to play his loudest and the max level was set so that this wouldn't cause a data overflow (aka digital clipping). Once the level is set, the group is captured. So you are hearing the natural dynamic range of the group.
There are no standards for levels for recording music as there are for films.
On my admittedly compromised system without a peak hold meter (yes that is sarcasm), I don't have to alter the playback level of this disc by more than 1 or 2 dB higher than typical for any other discs.
of the guitar.
It sounds good, in that. There is one notable punctuation in the first song where the percussion comes in and hits a cymbal type instrument, and it is very striking.For (another) comparison, on Larry Carlton's CD "Discovery" an accoustic guitar showcase, with plenty-o'-percussion, my amp puts out 25-30 watts from the incoming redbook signal.
Mark should balance the benefits of no clipping, with the listeners' need to boost most preamps into the distortion level in order to get enough juice to the amp to provide a listening level in excess of that disseminated by an accoustic guitar. The problem may be in the mix, where Mark, or whomever, wanted the prcussion to have a potential sound level 30-40 dbs in excess of the main instrument (Juber). And, as any engineer knows, the precussion already has a built in distortion to it; some compression of the cymbals would be a good trade for increased clarity and volume on the guitar.
cleaner and more tranparent gain would help too. Especially with phono. Have a 5mv MM cart with only 40dB in phono gain {(inv_log[40dB/20])*0.005v= 0.5v}. couple that with a linestage with modest gain into an (tube in my case) amp into maggies. And there's your (our) problem. I think a different linestage would help me (and maybe you too)!I'm looking at the Trancended Sound Grounded Grid preamp. My current N.E.W. linestage is likely very similar to your Cary unit.
fixed the problem. (See the amp\pre forum for details).
I thought maybe my preamp doe snot put ouenough gain. But was told that was not an issue, it had the same amount of "Signal" as most other pre's. Also, on most SACD's and DVDA's (all I listen to) it can wail! What about a new McIntosh? I love the amp? Wrong forum for me to ask you? :-)
that could have been used on Guitar Noir wihout the need for compression. What peaks are there from an accoustic guitar?
2VN was just an example. Let's look at "Jazz at the Movies" for another example. It may have compression; I don't hear it. It has about 4 times the sound per dollar value of Guitar Noir. If you are saying that GN COULD NOT have been recorded any louder without compression, OK, I have learned something. But I have my doubts...
That is exactly the case, the levels of the recording and the mixes are captured and output without any compression as well. This method of recording and mixing is not common and results in the RMS level of the tracks being much lower than comparable products that employ dynamics processing. If you listen to the entire disc the loudest moment of the loudest instrument establishes the peak that can be delivered on a non-compressed disc. This means that the momentary power requirements of a system will be pressed to service at that time...the dynamics follow the actual dynamics contour of the live event. This philosophy brings much-needed life back into recordings that have otherwise been processed to death.Guitar Noir could not have been recorded and mixed any louder without having dynamics processing applied (I know I do all of the mixes) ...and I simply refuse to compromise the musical dynamics at any stage of the process.
When I listen to my Meridian 800/861 into a Butler 5500 tube 5 channel amplifier and finally into a set of Piega C-8 Ltd. speakers...the sound is amazing! I played it for Felix Martinez of DVD-Etc. and he loved it so much that he listed it at the Number 1 slot in his list of the top 20 best multichannel discs ever!
There are real choices to be made when you make a recording...the products that I release reflect mine. I get enough positive reviews and comments to keep making the purist recordings that I can.
Actuallly, I liten to the multitrack with video.
Yes, the stereo mix (which is the last mix to be created) is bound by the same limitations. I do the 5.1 channel "Stage" mix first. That mix is found on the DVD-Audio side of the discs (encoded in MLP) and as the DTS mix with video on the DVD-Video side. The 5.1 "Audience" mix is done next and is the default for the Dolby Digital version.
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