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In Reply to: Sony and DVD-Audio/DualDisc posted by Steven R. Rochlin on November 04, 2004 at 12:35:51:
I can undertand why sacd players can have trouble with a slightly thinner cd layer thickness. It seems that sacd drives have enough trouble meeting sacd specs as it is. Lot's of failures are reported with older machines getting out of alignment and gradually lower laser output due to ageing.But thickness jamming issues with Sony (slot) players is like telling that there own CD/DVD players are not complying to redbook/DVD maximum thickness specs.
Sloppy
Follow Ups:
It is not just Sony balking:http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/0,,2076_3143_162057205,00.html
"
Dear Customer:Pioneer has become aware that some pre-recorded hybrid discs -- which are referred to as "DualDisc" -- have been released in the market to consumers by some music companies and record labels. These hybrid discs appear to be a bonded combination of DVD on one side of the disc and non-DVD (which may incorrectly be referred to as a CD side) on the other side. Pioneer understands that, although these discs may refer to a CD side, the "non-DVD" side is not compliant with the Compact Disc Digital Audio specification and does not bear the CD logo.
Pioneer recommends that consumers not use "DualDisc" products with any Pioneer products, including CD players, DVD players and recorders, and computer drives until Pioneer has an opportunity to test them. At this point in time, Pioneer does not know whether Pioneer products can safely handle these new hybrid discs, or whether these discs may damage your Pioneer products.
Pioneer will update this notice based on further investigation."
Manuf. will put things in subsequent manuals about what discs their players can or can't play as a matter of std. legal protection if there are problems. Whether problems, if in fact there are any, are due to DualDisc or not, it is an easier out than fixing firmware on tens of thousands of units and just use their resources for the next model yr. and leave consumers with the old models dangling. It is just reality. My local hi-fi shop has seminars in Jan. and Feb. (after CES - last yr. Linn and Rotel were there) and I'm hoping to get the real scoop on what they think but won't put in writing, especially after they have a couple of beers or glasses of wine in them.
making them number 1 with Panasonic a distant second at 12%. If DualDisc has issues with all Sony players, it's all over for DualDisc.
DD plays in my CDP-101 for god sakes. As well as my C333ES and CE775 and XA777.
.
seeing that you continue to show your education level. We are talking about the CD side of DualDisc and it's issues playing in Sony DVD Players..."In addition, since the audio side of the DualDisc does not comply with Audio Compact Disc specifications, it may not be read by Sony DVD and CD players and drives."
I might add that Sony also has a huge market penetration in CD-ROM, DVD-ROM and car audio as well.
Dad:When you post a message that calls into question someone's educational level, it's a good idea to be sure that you haven't made any grammatical mistakes yourself.
"We are talking about the CD side of DualDisc and it's issues playing in Sony DVD Players."
"it's issues" should be "its issues".
. . but you preferred to "skip" instead. How sweet.
LOL
> > seeing that you continue to show your education level < <Masters degree in production & manufacturing systems engineering
Just getting you back for the 'Kindergarden' incident!
Don't let him scare you - he is a master fisherman - or better known as a Master Baiter:)
> > Don't let him scare you - he is a master fisherman < <Of course I'm using only "high-end" fishing "wire". I bait the suckers every time.
That's OK, he loves DualDisc too, know why, he gets to put it in both ways. Some people are just into good music and others are into whatever suits their fancy which is OK by me whatver they do in the privacy of their own equipmen:).
i gotta stay out of this one, seeing as i'm a dumb-ass college drop-out . . .
The truth is that Einstein got his undergraduate college degree in 1901 and his doctoral degree in 1905.
"Even though he loved academics, he disliked school and eventually dropped out of high school. Without a high school diploma, he had to take special exams to get into college. He failed the first set and had to re-take them. After graduation, he couldn't get a job anywhere. He was even rejected by the Swiss military because he had flat feet, but he eventually found a tutoring job and earned three francs an hour."
to say he was a drop-out, most people interpret this to mean that was his highest level of education...but technically you are correct.
nt
That's a flaw in their player design.
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Why Sony has not manufactured players with full compatibility or 'universal players' as other manufactures have done to date. DVD-Audio was basically decided upon in early 1998 as per the Working Group 4 (WG-4). So we are discussing a standardized format (DVD-Audio) that has technically been relevant for over six years.Am not bashing DSD/SACD, yet one can only speculate why Sony (considered a large electronics manufacturer) does not sell units that playback a standardized high-resolution audio format (DVD-Audio) and, instead, play their own type of audio format (SACD).
The next step is DualDisc that also have a DVD-Audio side...
It is not taking sides of SACD versus DVD-Audio, it is having a manufacture not support a format that is a true standard for over 6 years.
Enjoy the Music,
Steven R. Rochlin
SACD is made according to a standard specification, so are LPs, so are cassette tapes, and so are minidisksThey are all standard formats. The RIAA equalization curve has been an industry standard since 1954. AFAIK, Meridian is not supporting this standard format. One can only speculate why.
Which standard format? LP? Meridian has phono stage options.SA-CD? You can certainly take a stereo or multi-channel input into an appropriately equipped Meridian processor or receiver and make it look just like any other source.
If you mean disc players, that's another story, and that is their decision. Were they ever to make an SA-CD player, it would almost certainly grab the data off the disc and convert to PCM so that it could be handled by their DSPs...
Nevertheless, tunenut's point is valid - if you fault Sony for not making DVD-A capable players, you must also fault Arcam, Meridian, Rotel et al, for not making SACD-capable players. Both formats are considered to be industry standards.
Where have I faulted Sony for not making a DVD-A player in this discussion? I haven't.If you're trying to make a point, you might want to do so with someone else.
Regards,
John Kotches
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