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In Reply to: Sony and DVD-Audio/DualDisc posted by Steven R. Rochlin on November 04, 2004 at 12:35:51:
This is truly classic. An 'own-goal' if ever there was one. I'll paste it below in case the referring link is lost . . .
November 2, 2004Dear Valued Sony Authorized Dealer,
As you are no doubt aware, the music industry is on the verge of launching a new two sided media product called DualDisc similar in size to a DVD and CD. This DualDisc mates DVD recorded material on one side with digital audio material on the other side. However, the audio side of this new media does not meet the technical specifications to be called an "Audio Compact Disc".
The DVD video content on the DVD side of the DualDisc should play on, and be compatible with, Sony DVD players and DVD drives. However, Sony DVD players and drives do not support DVD Audio and these devices will not play the DVD Audio formatted content offered on the DVD side of a DualDisc but should play all other audio content offered on the DVD side. In addition, since the audio side of the DualDisc does not comply with Audio Compact Disc specifications, it may not be read by Sony DVD and CD players and drives.
In an effort to inform consumers, Sony Electronics will be placing stickers on some of our products in the future alerting consumers to these potential compatibility issues. We will also advise consumers about this issue by our placement of inserts into our products as well as placing information (FAQs) on the sonystyle.com website. We trust that you will communicate this information to your employees so that they may properly educate consumers on this issue in order to minimize the risk of returns relating to compatibility between hardware products and DualDiscs.
If you have any questions regarding the above, please feel free to contact me.
Very truly yours,
Stan Glasgow
Sony has also stated, referring to their own electronics, that "DualDiscs may become jammed in the slots or racks of the holders of these products. We recommend that you do not attempt to play DualDiscs in these units." As of this writing Sony, with their proprietary SACD format, have no plans to offer hardware that supports the industry standard DVD-Audio format. One can only speculate why an electronics manufacturer such as Sony would not support industry standard DVD-Audio and DualDisc, instead, supporting only their own nonstandard SACD format.
Follow Ups:
.. as it saddens me that the high-end audio industry has not been clear about what is a standard format and what is proprietary. There is a specific organization who dictates what is a standard format for DVD. Sony did desire SACD being a standard yet SACD was not chosen over DVD-Audio. The below link is permanent so no need to publish the copyrighted text here on AA. Please see below link for additional information that also includes a link to the DVD Forum that decides standards.Enjoy the Music,
Steven R. Rochlin
Checking back with the standards keeper is always a good idea. On the www.dvdforum.org web site I searched for ‘DualDisk’, ‘Dual Disk’, and ‘Dual-Disk’ and got zero hits. Are they calling it something else? At:
http://www.dvdforum.org/tech-dvdprimer.htm#7
under the DVD Formats heading the DVD gatekeepers list:DVD Video
For viewing movies and other visual entertainment. The total capacity is 17 Gbytes if two layers on both sides of the disk are utilized.
DVD-ROM
Its basic technology is the same as DVD Video, but it also includes computer-friendly file formats. It is used to store data. This product should supplant conventional CD-ROMs in the near future.
DVD-R
Its capacity is 4.7 Gbytes. Originally designed for professional authoring, a version for general consumer use is now under development. As with CD-R, users can write only once to this disk.
DVD-RAM
This makes DVD a virtual hard disk, with a random read-write access. Originally a 2.6-Gbyte drive, its capacity has increased to 4.7-Gbyte-per-side. It can be re-written more than 100,000 times.
DVD-RW
Similar to DVD-RAM except that its technology features a sequential read-write access more like a phonograph than a hard disk. Its read-write capacity is 4.7 Gbytes per side. It can be re-written up to about 1,000 times.
DVD Audio
The latest audio format more than doubles the fidelity of a standard CD. It is expected to become the most popular audio disk.DualDisk seems to be MIA.
Off the www.dvdforum.org web site one is linked to http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/. The DVD Forum is the industry group which devised the original DVD specification and recommends extensions. DVD FLLC (Format Logo Licensing Corp) is the company which sells and administers licenses to build DVD players/drives or press DVD disks. Again I found no mention of DualDisk. The interesting thing I found there was this statement:
“0.6mm Thick Optical DiscsLately, non-bonded discs with the thickness of 0.6mm are being manufactured and distributed to the public. These so called DVD discs are clearly out of Specifications and often cannot be properly played on players and drives in the market. They are reported to cause damages to the discs themselves and/or the hardware during reproduction. Licensees are reminded that the use of the DVD Format for products that do not conform to the Specifications is a violation of the DVD Format/Logo License. Such violation may lead to termination of the License.”
Guess it’s not just Sony who have some concerns with too-thick disks!
happy listening
Norman Tracy
DualDisc is a RIAA trademark. Licensing for use of the DualDisc logo through the DVD FLLC is not required.Frank
why an electronics manufacturer such as Sony would not support industry standard DVD-Audio and DualDisc, instead, supporting only their own nonstandard SACD format"Hmmm..let's see- maybe they have been taken over by space aliens who don't understand how important DVD-A and DualDisc are to the future of humanity (or don't care).
Maybe they have been taken over by Taliban who hate music and want to destroy all music reproduction as a step toward the full abolition of music.
Maybe they are trying to create value for their shareholders.
Who knows.
OK, I'll 'speculate' — conspiracy theory alert ;-) — that it could be to try and sabotage it from within? Or maybe there is an internal rivalry between Sony Music and Sony's consumer electronics division?One thing's for certain though, more and more chart albums are coming out with both CD and DVD content included in the CD jewelbox, stocked in the CD aisles of record stores.
So the issue now is clearly one of "DualDisc" versus "Dual Discs".
For example, in the UK, "The Donnas" and "Simple Plan" comes on the latter -- i.e. two separate discs — and includes the hirez 5.1 DVD-Audio on the DVD. These are both DualDiscs in the US.b.t.w. Note that Sony never talked about putting stickers on their players for the myriad other discs (such as copy controlled ones, or ones with CD-video or ROM content) which are not exactly Redbook audio spec.
Obviously, I think all the conspiracy theories are pretty silly.I have a few CD/DVD combos that I've bought over the years, usually packaged as CD with bonus DVD. None of these are DVD-Audio however.
I can play DVD-A now, but due to the cheapness and general mediocre audio quality on my budget universal player, I have no real temptation to explore any titles.
I don't know about Sony in particular, but I do know that "copy protected" CDs often have a warning label, as they should. One of the common ways to "copy protect" a CD is to make it look like a defective disk, in the hope that a computer drive will reject it. Of course, some players will also reject such a disk. And some computer drives (more with time) will accept it.
Tunenut , you are always boring , and never funny .LOL
ZS KEKL
but looks don't count!!!
yes, i wonder what sony music/bmg thinks of this not-very-transparent attempt at spin-doctoring. particularly since sony music/bmg will also be issuing DualDiscs.oh well, time will tell ... i am a bit concerned about dualdisc compatibility, based on early reports, but i'll wait until i have some personal experience before commenting further.
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