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In Reply to: Martin there are 3 complete Beethoven cycles on SACD: posted by Teresa on November 02, 2004 at 14:11:14:
1. HANDEL MESSIAH:-~~ McCrees & Gabrieli Consort & Players on Archiv Produktion SACD
This is a ‘faux-surround’ 48kHz recording! And it needs three separate discs. And it’s $38!
Oh, and quote from SA-CD.net:- "My main problem with McCreesh’s conducting is his inconsistent tempi, some choral numbers are far too fast and some slow music is dragging. Fine group of soloist it let down by wobbly Bernarda Fink’s alto, especially annoying in "O thou that tallest good tidings to Zion" (and at what speed!). Her phrasing and English pronunciation are doggy to say the least. Shame, as she has some of the most beautiful and intimate music to sing."
~~ Anders Ohrwall & Members of the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra The Stockholm Bach Choir on FIM SACD
Teresa, this is neither multichannel nor digital recording. And it’s fairly old. And on Amazon it’s a whopping $56 !!! And please note that for "technical reasons", the soloists could only take their places on a platform to the left in front of the violinists. Therefore, in your stereo system, you will hear them primarily from the left.
2. BEETHOVEN SYMPHONIES:-
~~ Herbert von Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic on DGG SACDThis is old.
~~ Kurt Masur, Gewandhaus Orchester Leipzig on PentaTone Classics SACD;
ditto
~~ Jaap van Zweden, Städtischer Musikverein Düsseldorf Residentie on Praga Digitals SACD
Jaap van WHO??! ;-)
quotes from SA-CD.net:-
" . . . it all sounds a bit homogenous to me, - after an indifferent first, up to and including the 8th, all the symphonies sound as though they were written at the same time. I don't get the sense of progression in Beethoven's composing style . . ."
and:-
" . . . The ninth is recorded live with mediocre soloists and in a pretty wiry, thin sound (whereas the sound for the rest is quite warm and rich if a little too close). It lacks pace and excitement . . ."
and:-
" . . . Jaap van Zweden's Beethoven cycle started off badly. His reading of the first symphony was awful. His tempi just didn't make sense and broke the work apart . . ."
and:-
" . . . It ain't the best Beethoven cycle out there, not even close."
>> If there is any shrillness or any velvet fog in any of these it is YOUR EQUIPMENT not the recording.<<Rubbish. The Denon -5900 in both "pure-direct" & "source direct" DSD mode with its big power supplies is as good as anything out there for around $2,000. I have separate m-ch pre-amp (in pure multichannel analog bypass mode), coupled to my 120w * 5ch power amp.
b.t.w. My amp & speakers perform with astounding clarity and soundstage when fed a good DVD-Audio recording. SACD is the problem.>> Are you maybe playing the CD layer in error? <<
Who do you take me for, Teresa?>> Something is terribly wrong somewhere.<<
Yep. And it ain't my system, nor my ears.Now Teresa, if you don’t mind, I’ll get back to my excellent high-resolution Abbado AND Barenboim cycles recorded for DVD-Audio. And also of course my full Messiah all on one high-resolution multichannel DVD-A. Plus all my other DVD-As.
Follow Ups:
Amazing, I only have 1 Beethoven recording: Symphony No. 9 - Runnicles, Atlanta Symphony Orchestra on Telarc SACD-60603. I may add Symphony No. 3, Symphony No. 6 and possibly No. 5, but I feel no need for all nine.I do have the complete Symphonies of Rachmaninoff and Gliere but I am not a completest. I pick and choose what I like best.
I did not mean to imply you couldn't tell the SACD from the CD layer, but your description of that SACD sounds exactly like how a CD would sound on an entry level player.
Also: FYI the best recordings in my collection are old: RCA Living Stereo SACDs and LPs, Mercury Living Presence SACDs and LPs. Even the recording I am listening to now is old: GERSHWIN: Complete Works for Orchestra and Piano and Orchestra and Classic Records 24/96 DAD, fantastic sound and superb music, you might not like it as it is 2 channel stereo. So far most of my DVD-Audios and DADs are 2 channel stereo's many recorded as early as the 60's.
Just so you know I prefer 2 channel stereo and Analog. As I find Analog originals (especially made on tubed reel to reel decks) to be the most realistic.
Happy listening,
TeresaP.S.: I don't like Handel's Messiah, it's not that I don't like religious music as I love Eric Bibb and other religious singers. I hate the singing and music in Handel's Messiah, the only Handel I like is the Royal Fireworks Music and to a lesser degree the Water Music.
> > I hate the singing and music in Handel's Messiah, the only Handel I like is the Royal Fireworks Music and to a lesser degree the Water Music < <Hold on Teresa. One minute you gloat about those supposed complete SACD 'cycles' of the Messiah & Beethoven on SACD, and now you respond like a kid throwing toys out of the pram.
I do not have to like them to know they exist. It's that simple.You were so wrong when you said DVD-Audio had 2 complete Beethoven cycles and SACD have NONE, when SACD actually has 3 complete Beethoven cycles.
You also said there was ZERO Handel Messiah's on SACD. Which was also off but a factor of 2!
I don't have to love something to spot an error or untruth. So it would be a good idea to check facts before claiming something does not exist.
And I like what I like and that is the whole of it.
The ones you mentioned were not recorded for SACD. So while they may be (or may not be) good performances, they don't count in my book. Any idiot can do a transfer of an old stereo recording to any format they want.In the same vein, I deliberately did not mention the other non-hirez recorded Beethoven cycles on DVD-Audio, as well as other Messiahs (e.g. the acclaimed Mormon Tabernacle one plus others on DVD-A.) — which by your logic would increase DVD-A’s lead even further. It’s plain to see that I’m talking about new recordings for the new formats.
For classical DVD-Audio, this means a 96/24 (or 88.2kHz/24bit)recording in discrete surround-sound. For SACD I would count a 88-96kHz/24bit or DSD recording in discrete surround-sound.
What I look for is performers I like and music I like and generally prefer classical music recorded during the golden age (mid 1950's - mid 1960's) and some of the better Analog recordings of the 1970's.Of the NEW recordings I prefer Telarc, BIS and others especially from DSD masters.
For DVD-Audio I am mostly looking for 192kHz 24 Bit 2 channel Stereo DVD-A's. For the master tape I prefer 2 Track 30ips or 15ips Analog played on a vintage tubed Reel to Reel directly to as high as resolution as possible 192kHz or DSD. My second choice of master tape is pure DSD, third choice is 192kHz 24 Bit original, forth choice is 96kHz 24 Bit original.
And of course I don't even look to see if it is MULTICHANNEL I look to see if it has a 2 CHANNEL STEREO MIX . And I do not discount any recording just because it is old. Sonically some of the very best sounding recordings are old tubed analog recordings.
But I serouisly thought you were gloting that DVD-Audio had complete Beethoven symphonies and Messiah's and SACD did not.
"Any idiot can do a transfer of an old stereo recording to any format they want."
Any idiot yes but it takes a superb transfer engineer to capture all the sound of a golden age recording and make it sound superb! Only a handful of people can do this.
Old Stereo recordings are my biggest interest in both DVD-Audio and SACD.
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